Colloquies with Foreigners

by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura

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Talk to Dr. Magnus Hirsch of Berlin

Interview with Professor Johans
Head of the Department of Philosophy
St. Xaviers College

Talk to Herr Baron H.E. Von Koeth and Herr E.G. Schulze

Talk to Mrs. Nora Morell of Germany

Talk to Professor Dr. Stella Kramrisch, M.A., Ph.D

Interviews with Mr. Willion Henri Jan Vandor Stok of Bavaria

Professor Albert E. Suthers Interviews
The Author Answers Questions of
Professor Suthers of Ohio University

Talk to Dr. Magnus Hirsch of Berlin

18 September 1931

Q: What are the main features of your teachings?

A: We are agents who require help from outside to sustain our existence. The help that is coming to us at present is inadequate. Inadequacy is the normal condition of the present atmosphere. An examination of our rationalistic principle shows that we require more help than our friends offer. We have five senses to pick up the knowledge of the Truth. We desire that we should be endowed with more knowledge. Our thirst is not quenched by the ordinary knowledge deducible from sense-perception available from the empiric professors. This impulse leads us to enquire as to how we can have more knowledge than can be had here.

We are also found to believe that there is an agency who is not furnishing the requisite knowledge because we are proving ineligible for admission to the plane of adequate knowledge. This is the source of the theistic conception regarding necessity in our existence to see the nature of apparent truths. Hence also the conception of the necessity of the coming of the special agent of the absolute knowledge, as our thirst is never to be quenched by the supply of the agents of empiric knowledge who alone are ordinarily available here.

We should seek for the Fountain-head of all knowledge. If we do not do so we find ourselves poorly supplied. Our capacity for retention of knowledge also leaves us when we choose to be conversant with local, temporary, apparent truths. The symbolical deceptive Knowledge is presented when we neglect to seek the connecting thread of all knowledge. A time comes when our physical equipment parts with all its seeming possessions.

The Theistic conception refers to a Fountain-head where Knowledge is Full and Ever-existing and can impart incessant Bliss. We are pleasure-seekers through the senses. The empiric view does not offer the facility to supply us with incessant Bliss. There must be a Theistic view. We have to scrutinize the position of absolute knowledge, Existence and Bliss required by us. We must seek for the place where the Absolute knowledge, existence and Bliss is to be had.

In Mathematics we get a glimpse of the fourth dimension. We are practically restricted to the third dimension by our senses except for a very hazy idea of direction only. Unless the fountain-head could be traced we cannot cease from seeking, or from being debarred and led astray from, Knowledge that supplies an enduring basis for true existence. We are thus compelled by the very direction of all our activities to seek after things which should be called Absolute. Or, to sum up, as we pass our days in the non-Absolute region we should have the impulse to have access to the transcendental region.

If we are not to have full knowledge, Un-ending Life, Un-interrupted Bliss, this life would be pessimistic existence. We shall then submit to be born, grow and pass away without tackling the inadequacies of the phenomena.

We should trace the Fountain-Head, the Real Cause from Whom all these have emanated, not being content with the agnosticism that prevails more or less at present.

We should seek for more knowledge than we get from our senses. We hope that some clue of the transcendental world should be received by us through a particular process unknown to men with sensuous habits who are busy with phenomena only, concocting many ideas about the future life. Some subscribe to metempsychosis, some to this life only, for completing all preparations for peace at the long end. These varying opinions do not satisfy for the reason that they are secular. The tentative solutions offered by speculative philosophy are stained by this radical defect. They give particular views that do not satisfy, being based upon mundane condition investigated through the senses.

The Absolute possessed of all Knowledge, Existence, Bliss, can give all that we are in need of. We are not in a position to advance one step beyond these three dimensions. We are restricted to the partial view. We cannot get the whole impression of a globular sphere at a glance. Some turning or transformation of the angle of vision is required for the purpose of getting the full view. We get the view of only a quarter of the all-round. We see 180 degrees at a time. If we want to see at our backs we have to turn our head to that direction. Then half the sphere is exposed.

At a glance we see only a quarter of the sphere of existence. So we are lacking in simultaneous grasp of the whole idea. We should not therefore turn agnostics etc. When we fail to have the full view fully at one time we should know that our determination of self concerns but an infinitesimal part of the fountain-head from Whom many things have emanated. We should on the contrary, trace Him from where deviation is not possible. The challenging part is to have no lien to deviate from the Fountain-Head.

Any deviation is only part and parcel of phenomena, not the whole thing. The immanent and transcendent are ignored. We engage ourselves in one thing with our whole attention, but the exposition of the thing gives a partial idea. If the attributes are eliminated the original thing is to be sought in which many things are incorporated. Incorporation itself gives very little of the whole integer. Our senses fail to get at the whole thing at one time.

Our brain cannot accommodate Fullness, Ever-existence without beginning or ending of time. So the position of the Absolute should be traced in the person of the Absolute. The Absolute was in the beginning, is existing in every present phenomenon that will disturb the process of transformation and will destroy the phenomenal position. All knowledge will be distinctive and will destroy and put a stop to these things.

But that thing should be traced out. We should acquire the conception of the thing through the senses at present. Sound gives impressions of objects at a distance, like abstracted ideas from the concrete. Abstract ideas like charity etc., in a subtle form tend to captivate the brain in favour of perception and conception of things through the senses. Sound conveying impressions of phenomena requires corroboration from the four other senses and the mind as well.

We reject sounds whose validity is required to be testified to by the other senses. The transcendental Sound has got a distinctive character. The sound from the fourth dimension received by the ear has got a special potency to clear out all restricted ideas and to include everything of phenomena. The sounds we hear are meant to be restricted to the third dimension, to be transcended by the fourth and higher dimensions. The transcendental Sound clears out all impediments that block the path of the Sound.

The idea of immanence cannot be secured unless we break down the molecules. Unless we break them we cannot go to the other side, transcend time and space. That Sound will give a clear signal, a free path, by which we can make some progress towards the Absolute. That Sound should be received through instruction. We should undo what we have received hitherto. There will be no loss. The distinctive feature of that Sound is that it should incorporate all reciprocal objects along with the Sound. That Sound should not be neglected because of its distinctive quality as coming from the Transcendent and so includes all and at the same time comes with all potencies to clear out all sorts of un-aesthetic and wrong impressions received from our aptitude to enjoy the world which should not hamper our progress towards the Full and Eternal.

We are only showing our natural aptitude and should not be denied. We should lend our ear to receive the transcendental Sound. We should stop all our senses for the time being and receive the things and not merely their attributions. The transcendental Sounds are given us by the Fountain-Head Who can take the initiative. He is not ' It '. He is to be deemed as Male-Moiety of the things, of the subservient phenomena. The transcendental Sound should not lack any part of the Integer.

The transcendental Sound is equipped with All-potency. As the potency of Sound is restricted we find diverse existences in different things and are not in a position to receive things in full. Partial conceptions also make us forget. We should shake off all other ideas and thoughts for the time being. We expect the Absolute Language flowing into the ear to include all languages. If we behave otherwise, that Sound cannot communicate itself to us.

The transcendental Sound has got innumerable potencies. It has power of delegating power to us to receive all of it. When it comes from an unknown region it should first inject such power to our feeble receiving instrument as would enable us to welcome it. We must not show a challenging or rejecting attitude as we are liable to do towards advice offered gratis.

We should know that the transcendental Sound has the necessary potencies that confer on us such desirable gifts as will enable us to neglect the other senses. Our eyes, nose, etc., will be regulated by that Sound. This is not hypnotism or mesmerism which gives anthropomorphic ideas. They are altogether beyond the human scope. They should charm and transform the human. They should not depend for any help from the senses or empiricism restricted to their poor rationalistic expedition only. Such help cannot be effective and can only hamper us, when transcendental Sounds flow into our ears from an agent who will inspect whether we desire mundane supplies or not.

The transcendental Sound will carry all the requisites necessary for receiving the Sound. We should patiently wait through the whole of our life. The transcendental Sound may come through human and all other agents, if only we are ardent, if we require his help, if we unconditionally surrender everything acquired by the empiric method, if we dismantle the constructions accrued during the empiric period. If we do not dismantle them there will be no eligibility for receiving the transcendental Sound.

The transcendental Sound will be coming out of the Initiative Faculty of the Unknown. Whatever submits to our senses is Nature's product. When we engage our senses we fail to make progress because we have not dismantled all culture, even all aesthetic culture of this world. If we are desirous of catching the transcendental Sound we should be prepared for the time being to suspend all sensuous activities and wait for the transcendental Sound to include all.

If we ignore the Cause of causes we miss the opportunity to receive the transcendental Sound. As present people are engaging in materialistic activities we wish some sorts of elementary culture to be introduced to make them progress in the line of the full existence. Spiritualists in every part of the world are busy in threshing the subject by deferring wrongly to the mundane reference. True spiritualists speak out all even to persons who are incredulous. This incredulity will be slowly removed by the transcendental Sound. If the speaker utters anything mundane it will not lead to the transcendental Position.

If we are fortunate to receive the Sound that is beyond the human scope we should listen to it. God-head sends down His messengers in symbolised figures to give us, if we are at all really sanguine, ideas of the Absolute. It is only then that we would be enabled to make any progress. This fortune is denied to all who have love for transformable things.

Persons desirous of having the view of the whole at a glance should have their access through the transcendental Sound only and not through the senses. The distinctive feature of that Sound is that it carries all sorts of information and potencies that would give us facilities to welcome the Sound Those who neglect to attend to that sound would be unmindful of the Fountain-Head. They would be engaging in intellectual activities in this material space that cannot accommodate spirit. They would be apt to carry gross things there to enrich that region. But lanterns are not necessary for seeing the Sun.

The lanterns are useful for seeing things in the dark. It will only encumber and obstruct us if we carry the knowledge and acquisition of this world for progress in that region. We may be very simple in our habits, may be very poor in our linguistic equipment, but when the transcendental Sound reaches our ear that will clear up all dirts of our ear accumulated by previous receiving of the mundane sound. This will be secured in the company of persons who are eager to restrict their whole activity to the transcendental Process. If we pay some fee to the scoffing atheists, to the professors of empiric wisdom, to the builders of the temporal structures, etc., these partial donations in exchange will not give us the whole thing. We should not think of bartering at all. The transcendental Sound does not require any earthly media for its communication.

We must not neglect the transcendental Sound freely transmitted by the agents of the Absolute. We find ourselves interested in many things that are not known to us. The doctors do not know the remedies of many diseases. We require no monetary value in exchange for transmitting our message. We live a simple life and require little help from others in the way of scientific facilities. As we have got our ear we can receive the transcendental Sound and vocalise the same to any intelligent person who may hear us.

This will not be accessible to persons who have very little culture, who are engrossed in sensuous engagements. But we expect the intelligent section to make some preparatory progress towards a region of which we are essentially in need. In these days of materialism we are no doubt puzzled by these high thoughts. We are trying to do much to enrich the human intellect. But we are startled when we are told to look beyond. This is silly.

We want to rouse up the true mentality of the civilized world for seeking true help towards spiritual progress. The secular help cannot appease our inner hunger. The transcendental Help can. We intelligent people should receive the tranicendental [sic] Sound. We are now vitally concerned in this as every one is engaged in exploring ways and means for getting rid of our present unbearable inadequacies. We should spare a portion of our time to receive those Sounds.

Interview with Professor Johans

Head of the Department of Philosophy

St. Xaviers College

Q: Please tell me in brief the doctrine of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

A: There is an old Shloka which says "Bhagavan Krishna's (Son of the Chieftain Nanda of Braja) own place Vrindavana is the object of worship according to the example of the cowherd-wives of Braja which is glorified in the Srimad Bhagavatam, the stainless Puranam, and Love of God is the highest thing for attainment." This is the doctrine of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, for which we have the greatest regard and not for anything else.

The fullest development of the idea about Godship is in Shri Krishna. He reveals Himself to His devotees of different competences in three Forms. All these three are perfect conceptions, not like the partial one of Paramatma and the incomplete one of Brahman. These three perfect conceptions are full, fuller and fullest. These three are revealed in Dwaraka, Mathura and Vrindavana. At Dwaraka Krishna's manifestation is full, at Mathura it is fuller and in Braja (including Vrindavana) it is the fullest.

We are living in the Bhuloka, one out of the fourteen worlds comprising the seven lower worlds and seven higher ones. Of the latter, this world (Bhuloka) is the first. The Bhu (earth) Bhuvah (between heaven and earth) and Svah (heaven) are the regions of enjoyment for householders performing virtuous deeds with desire; the remaining higher regions, viz., Mahah, Janah, Tapah and Satya are attainable by non-householders. Of these four, the first is meant for those who live and study in the preceptor's house and intend to become house-holders after paying the preceptor a ceremonial present; the second is for the celibates who live with the preceptor for good and ever observe the rules of religious austerities; the third is for the hermits, who after retirement from worldly life live in the forest or in seclusion for meditation; and the fourth for the sanyasis (roaming mendicants). But the devotees of God, who have not the inordinate desire for worldly enjoyments or for merger in Brahman, attain to Shri Vaikuntha which is inaccessible to others. Even beyond that Vaikuntha, there is Dwaraka; higher than that is Mathura and above that too is Goloka-Vrindavana. These regions are manifested by the potency of existences lying in God's Esoteric Personality. The places that are there in the transcendental Region are revealed in the mundane region. What is non-existent in that region cannot be found in this one. The manifestation of the non-apparent sports of Vrindavana is Goloka. Just as the lotus remains in a lake without connection with water, so does Goloka stay in the world without any touch of the earth. Those whose mind is not prone to offer service (to God) cannot feel the transcendentality of the region descended on the mundane plane. Ayodhya, Dwaraka, Shri-Purushottam Kshetra of Shri Jagannath etc., are different provinces of Shri Vaikuntha. The bliss available in Ayodhya is better than that in Vaikuntha; the bliss in Dwaraka is superior to that in Ayodhya; and the bliss of the denizens of Goloka is the climax of all bliss. The difference in the degree of a particular Rasa or sentimental mellowness is the cause of the difference in the degree of the bliss. Even the afflictions and distresses that may be there in Goloka dance on the crest of all forms of blisses and happinesses; these are rather nourishers of the highest form of bliss. Shri Chaitanya Deva has demonstrated the superiority of researching the services of the Lord of Vrindavana or of Gokula. Shri Krishna is God Himself from Whom have emanated all the Incarnations of Vishnu. That Krishna manifests Himself as the Lord of Dwaraka, or of Gokula. Shri Chaitanya Deva has said about Lord Krishna of Gokula: "In Krishna are present all the five principal Rasas (forms of sentimental mellowness). He is Himself the Ocean of Rasas."

Q: What is it you call by the name Vaikuntha?

A: It is where there is no kuntha or the characteristic feature of measuring everything. This Vaikuntha has two petals or apartments. In the one God exists as Bhagavan with the highest Majesty. In the second apartment above the first one He is ever present with His Personality of perfect sweetness, He being the Ocean of all the sentimental succulence that gives the utmost sensation of transcendental pleasure; here He covers up that climax of Majesty with the predominance of His graceful sweetness by dint of inevitable Potency. Vaikuntha is no kind of limited region like the Swarga, of the Hindus, Bahest of the Persians, Heaven of the Christians, nor is the place, a habitation of the deities who are subject to the measuring limitations. The conception of Vaikuntha among the Vaisnavas is not like that of persons who think that as the result of virtuous acts they will go to the region of heaven and again come in contract with wives, sons and relatives connected with their bodies to remain absorbed in enjoyments as in the world. In Vaikuntha, Krishna is the only Master and all are eternally engaged in serving Him. According to the Vaishnavas, Swarga, Bahest, etc., are as false as day-dreams. We are all servants of God and God is the only recipient of our service. We are believers in Achintya-Bhedabhedavada i.e., the doctrine of the inscrutable simultaneity of distinction and non-distinction among God and His creation, animate and inanimate. We have no desire for obstructing the eternal essential virtue of chit (animation) in order to annihilate it with a suicidal policy by merging into Brahman, or, on the other hand, for being absorbed in material enjoyments in this world or in heaven etc., along with relations. We are associated counterparts of God. The modern thinkers are apathetic towards listening to Vaidic [sic] commands which have come down to us through the true line of Gurus, but they attach more value to the process of empiricism. And they are properly rewarded with punishment through that process itself. But we accept Avatara-vada, or process of Deduction. God and His devotees graciously come down to this world and give us the message of Vaikuntha. The Vaishnavas are not elevationists, following the karma-kanda, nor followers of jnana-kanda or salvationists. They are not achid-vadins, nor believers only in achit (i.e., achit-matra-vadins) nor again chinmatravadins; but they are chid-vilasa-vadins.

Q: What are these four Vadas?

A: Achid-vada is materialism of the following nature as when one says, "I shall be Indra, the King of heaven" or "I shall enjoy worldly pleasures" in the vein of Charvaka, the Indian Epicurus, whose philosophy was that pleasure was the highest good or again "I shall borrow and drink and not think of discharging the debt; I shall have convenient arrangements for leading a comfortable life in this world; and to be a greater enjoyer, I shall acquire and preserve health; I shall make a proper use of the canine teeth by eating fish and meat and vigorously manage the function of youth" and so on. 'Achin-matra-vada is the name of the attempt to annihilate the sentient existence, on the ground that Achid-vada is only temporal and the sentient existence is the unavoidable root of all troubles and miseries. According to them the extinction of the sentient existence is the most laudable and valuable thing, inasmuch as existence is the root of all evils. Sakyasimha, Kapila, etc., were the propounders of this doctrine. Chinmatra-vada is the name of the attempt to merge in Brahman and thus destroy the anuchit property of jivas. Shankaracharya and, before him, Dattratreya, were the propounders of this doctrine. The different anuchetanamsas (jivas) of the Entire Chit (God) remaining ever attracted by the Vibhu-Chetana (God) show love towards Him: this is known as chit-vilasa-vaichitrya. Here the atma (soul) is ever entirely engaged in the sportive activities with the God. In it there are no sins and no spiritual offences more heinous than sins, like the covered state of the soul as in Achid-vada, the attempt to annihilate atma and Paramatma as in Achinmatra-vada, or spiritual suicide as in Chinmatra-vada. There are here the full unfolding, the full beauty and the full coalescence of Paramatma and atma.

Q: You have just expounded very high philosophical truths which I shall take a long time to digest.

A: Only time will not do. These truths should be listened to again and again verbally from the mouths of true Acharyas. Some time ago Mr. Chapman (of the Imperial Library) listened for two or three hours to the philosophy of Shri Chaitanya Deva and at the end he admitted that even for a scholar like him, the philosophy was extremely difficult to enter into. So it cannot be understood without repeated hearings and with devout submission.

Talk to Herr Baron H.E. Von Koeth and Herr E.G. Schulze

[Herr Schulze was a great German scholar and a famous writer, who became a disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, living in India as a mendicant.]

We require the fullness of things. The plenary transcendence is to be approached. The difficult problem to be solved is how we can do so. First of all we find that the mind is meant for dealing with the external finite things of this world. Our senses are gratified by available objects but these objects are found to be inadequate for our purpose. When we are in search of more than is available here, or when we require a continuity of those very things, we are simply denied this full satisfaction. We cannot have our desirable objects in full, so we try to devise some means that continuity may be preserved.

Here we find three different trends, I mean qualities. One quality tends to operate for creative purposes, the next for sustenance and the third for destruction. Thus we have three situations. When there is nothing, something comes up for our sensuous inspection, something which was not in existence before or whose existence we could not trace before, just like an entry on the stage. It exists for some time. And then it takes its exit from the stage. These are the three stages we mark in this world, whereas in the Absolute, these are not the current conditions, though they have got their existence in order to foster the ecstasy of the Absolute.

We have to eliminate all sorts of undesirable impediments. We have to get rid of the alloyed portions, the defective portions, which we have incorporated with us. All sorts of imperfections should be avoided.

In the region of the Absolute we know there are three different energies working, one of which is His ecstatic energy by which bliss is conferred on us, and He is found to be inebriated with the ecstatic explorations. The very Absolute indulges Himself in the ecstatic mood and He is delighted; and when we find that He is delighted, we, being more or less part and parcel of the transaction, get a share as well, we being not the mind but the soul proper. When He is delighted, we necessarily get the advantage of that delightful temper of the Absolute. When He is surcharged with all beatific phases, we are also endowed with a part as per our own eligibility; as per our affinity for serving Him, we enjoy a part. Here where we are passing through a non-absolute region, our enjoyment is nothing but depriving Him of His enjoyment. We should take proper care not to carry our defective ideas there. The passionate desires of this mundane world should not be carried to the Absolute region. The second is the true energy, the energy of diffusing true knowledge; and the third is existence.

In the mundane region, we find three things: existence, sustenance and destruction. Destruction is a thing which is quite undesirable here. But in the Absolute region, we find the very dissociation or separation has got a factor in inebriating us. Here when we are deprived of something, we are rather helpless; there we get more opportunities of serving Him in case of separation. The procedure of approaching Him is to realise the condition of separation. Here we do not find Him. The Absolute cannot be had here though we may have ample inclination for having Him. The very formation of our equipments, the mind and the senses, is quite inadequate to have an approach to the transcendence, neither can we expect Him to be confined here as one of the objects of phenomena. We need not think that He comes under our sensuous jurisdiction. If He can come as an object, we should accuse Him of His finiteness. He is not to be dealt with as one of the material objects which can be reciprocated by our senses. He keeps Himself quite out of our vision and out of the touch of our senses. Unless we have devotional aptitude, we cannot invoke Him here. He does not condescend to come to this region and become an object of the activities of our senses. So we should find out a means to approach Him and this is known as Sadhan-Bhakti, i.e., the procedure to be adopted in our case. The Supreme Lord has not given us any privilege of exposing Himself to our senses. Phenomenal objects are presented to us, for duping us, for deluding us. So we have to be in touch with Him, but He has denied us this privilege. This is the case of separation. When He, the Lover, the Centre of all love, has denied the beloved His presence, our inclinations and activities should double, or treble to have His association. So this sort of separation is an essential point, is indeed the cardinal point, that will help us to have the inclinations of approaching Him.

All our attempts should tend towards association with Him, because the association is denied for the purpose of studying our hearts. He has given us this facility to have an easy track to reach Him. The very condition of separation is a very good thing for His servitor as he can culture his affinity or inclination for the Absolute more than when he is allowed to appear before Him. He has intentionally deprived us of His presence. He was found to be for a loving temper, but the Lover has deserted us, and we are to follow Him. When we are disappointed in not having His presence, we should actually thank our stars that our Lover has gained much by dissociating Himself from us. I mean the Autocrat has got the right of making Himself quite happy by deserting us, and we are to submit to His pleasure and wish, we are to submit to His whims. We must abide by His decision. That I consider to be service. That is, I need not satisfy my senses by approaching Him. But when he has managed to shut Himself from my senses, I know He wants that I should acquire more affinity for Him, and He has given me that opportunity. If He came within our perception, we would simply gratify our senses, which would be a detriment to our cause and would prove an obstacle to our service.

An illustration is quoted: One infinitestimal absolute was fanning the Absolute Infinity. The moment he thought that the Lord was delighted by his services, that the Master had accepted his services, he became overpowered and could fan no more. Thus he was found to be negligent in offering his services. The fanner should have known that he ought not to satisfy his senses by stopping his services by considering that the Master had accepted his services. He should not have become inebriated, because it proved rather a bar to his offering further service. Instead of being carried away by our emotional sentiments, we should always be alert in offering our service, and service is best offered by chanting the Name. The Supreme Lord is keeping Himself at a distance and we are to seek Him assiduously; this is the proper way of chanting the Name. The Name of the Absolute should be chanted continually so that we may be mindful and not diffident to offer our services. As soon as we show our diffidence to serve Him, and stop chanting His Name, we are necessarily led to lord it over the worldly phenomena, and we get a quite different occupation. The occupation or the sole function of the soul is nothing but to associate himself with the Supreme Lord. As soon as we are negligent of our services, we miss the opportunity of associating with Him. We are His eternal servitors (Bhaktas) and as such we have no other occupation but to serve Him. If we neglect this injunctions, [sic] we will have to become engaged with temporal things; but these engagements will not be continued for a long time. There will be a cessation of such engagements, and we miss what is eternal.

The transcendental Name is quite different from the ordinary sounds. The ordinary sounds carry the impression of things of this world for our purpose. All things of this phenomena are meant to serve us; but we are to serve Him. Service is to be rendered to the Absolute, and we need not hanker after receiving service from non-absolutes. Anything done for the purpose of our own self, is not service. Whatever is offered to the Absolute, is known as service or Bhakti. When the service is done property [sic], when it is not dominated by some regulation, the service is pure. All gnostic transactions or associations with the mundane things are quite opposed to service because they are meant for our purpose and not for the purpose of the Absolute. When we know we are absolute infinitesimals, our vision is fully restricted to the Absolute Infinity and not to any non-absolute thing. Devotion or Bhakti is the policy of approaching Him. Unconditional surrender should be performed at all cost. When we surrender, we will have an opportunity of depending on Him fully, otherwise we will be thinking of other things whether the Absolute is at all prepared to rescue us from this troublous region or not. The unconditional surrendering will give us the assurance that we will be rescued from the worldly affinity. If we chant the Name continuously, we will be able to get rid of our inclination of accepting worldly things, we will be simply relieved from the invasion of phenomenal finite objects. So chanting should be the process. We need not trouble ourselves in the beginning to enter into the details of the Absolute; the very chanting of His Name will take us to Him.

This world is a place of trial. We are to educate ourselves in the transcendental Science. We should not fail to do so now that we have got a human frame. We must avail our present opportunity, leaving aside everything else for our next life. This life should be engaged solely in the pursuit of the Absolute and that sort of pursuit will be effected if we adopt the process of devotion. We have very little to do with the worldly people; but we have everything to do with those who are engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. Association with people who are busy with their measuring temperament, will not be congenial for our purpose. We should not culture our enjoying temperament as most people are inclined to do. If we have at all to meet an undesirable person, we should always make it a point to proselytise him through education about the Transcendental.

The only aim of our life should be to make progress towards the veiled region. People may accuse us that we are talking in a vein of mysticism which cannot be examined by the senses. But we do not talk of mysticism, we talk of certainties. As seekers of positive knowledge, we should try to peep into the veiled region. People are busy in examining things by their seeming aspects. The seeming positions are not to be confused with the actual positions, as a wrapper should not be considered to be the letter. We should penetrate into things. The outer case, the bahiranga maya-shakti, has produced these things to be measured by our senses. This sort of measuring is not at all congenial to our purpose. We should have a peep into the Absolute. We should not take our physical and astral bodies to be our real self. At present we know nothing due to ignorance, and this ignorance, is to be dispelled. We cannot deny the fact that we will have to die and get rid of this fleshy tabernacle. We cannot retain it. So the real owner of the body should be aimed at first. This is swarupajnana. We should not be identified with our bodies. When we are found to be eligible to see Him, we will be attracted by His sublime beautiful face. His beauty should not be enjoyed by us, but our beautiful transcendental frame should be shown to Him for His pleasure. As soon as we show Him our spiritual beauty, He will disclose Himself to us.

Talk to Mrs. Nora Morell of Germany

September 1, 1936

We should have firm faith in the Divinity. We are absolute infinitesimals, and it is only proper we should associate ourselves with the Absolute. If we show our diffidence to do so, we are likely to be entangled with the ephemeral matters of this world. Our friends are with us for a short while only. They will leave us at any time when they are called away from this world. Whatever we do should tend towards association with the Divinity. We should not undertake any work for our temporary purposes. We are His dependents. Infinitesimals as we are, we should have our final place in Him. We should carry out all our activities for His purpose only. We should not think that we have any other thing to do. Unlike the ordinary people, we should have only one method of directing everything to Him for His service. The external gross body is meant for a hundred years and no more. Our mental speculations are bound to be going on in our present human form. But we are obliged to leave this mortal coil and to cease our transactions with the external world at some time however ardent we may be about having associations with the manifestive nature of things. If we wish to associate ourselves with the Absolute, all non-absolute propaganda for our temporary purposes should be abandoned as far as possible, otherwise we will be led to become materialists only. That non-absolute propaganda will instigate us to entangle ourselves with worldly thoughts and ideas. We will be thinking of physical developments instead of associating ourselves with the Absolute. We are all absolutes though infinitesimally small. Because we have shown diffidence we have proved our indolence to associate with Him; so, like shooting stars, we have been simply thrown off from Him. We have rebelled against that Entity. Now to go back to Him, it is essential that all our associations and movements should tend to His service.

First of all He should be designated. What is He? What form does He have? And how are we to go back to him? When we come to know that He keeps Himself aloof from everything in this phenomenal world, we feel the necessity of associating with Him. And this association can be had if we can eliminate the external impediments which are like screens, between the Absolute Infinity and the absolute infinitesimals. Our mental speculations are meant for associating with the phenomenal objects. But some philosophers thought it possible to turn our mental speculations to Him in His abstract form, instead of His manifestive nature. But here we have got His manifestive nature for the purpose of associating ourselves with Him. We cannot have this association by any sort of privations. The phenomenal objects are undesirable things. Although they have some effect on us, they are all transient and will not hold good for us till the end of time. We do not think, like materialists think that everything will stop when we die - that all our troubles will end at death. This miserable idea should be thrown off. We should engage all our activities to associate ourselves with the Absolute, as we are ourselves associate infinitesimals. We are not the body, nor the mind, nor the external atmosphere. We require dissociation from these. These undesirable situations should be eliminated at all costs, otherwise we will be engrossing ourselves entirely in the ordinary purposes of this world.

Lower animals are used as food by many people. In ancient times, when cannibalism was prevalent in the world, people used to eat human flesh. They thought that the human body was meant for their consumption. Later on when civilisation made progress, people gave up cannibalism, but went on taking flesh of lower animals. In India persons belonging to the higher castes do not take animal food. The development of religious thoughts have stopped the practice of cruelty to animals in many ways. Science has now proved that vegetables too have life and can feel pain and pleasure. But it is not mean that we should commit suicide by abstaining from taking any food. This problem is solved when food is meant for the purpose of the Absolute.

Everything has come out of Him and everything will go back to Him and everything is meant for His service. All animate and inanimate objects have come out of him and are meant for His service only. If we purloin these things, it would be deceiving the Absolute. We are absolute infinitesimals and are deluded by the ordinary manifestive character of the phenomena. We have to get rid of this delusion. We should have a peep into the Truth, and that Truth must be reached. If we are sincere, He will expose Himself to our vision. Whatever we do, we should do it for Him, for His eternal purpose, instead of indulging ourselves in transitory transactions. Our only function is not to carry on our work for our own purpose. We should not be the recipients of the fruits of the enterprises we have. It is better for us that whatever we do should be done in His favour and for His service. We are servitors. If we keep dogs, we would be servants for dogs; if we keep horses we would be servants of horses, and if we become altruists, we would be servants of human beings only. But the Absolute should be served at all costs. We should make it a point that all our activities should tend to His service. All animate and inanimate beings have emanated from Him. We should serve the Absolute and not engage ourselves in the non-absolute.

Most people are at a loss to understand what they should do and what they are meant for. They only see the superficial sides of things. The external sides of things are quite deluding. As intelligent men, we should be very careful. We should penetrate into everything properly. Our view should not be obstructed by the morphological representation of things, nor by the ontological side of things.

The methodical arrangement of the phenomena should not be restricted to our ordinary purpose of living only. But since our aim is a peaceful life, we do not wish to be troubled by the undesirable elements of the world. Sometimes we find a little peace by keeping rules and regulations and observing civic principles. But we are again put into trouble by some misunderstanding or other of the people from outside. There is some agency working behind, which is not exposed to our present senses.

Our sensuous nerves are quite ineligible for the purpose of associating with the Truth. The semblance of devotion and truth which people may put on often deceives us.

The external features, the morphological and ontological phases of things, are sometimes found to be detrimental to our cause when our ambition is to come into touch with the Absolute. We have the facility of possessing the experience of the last ten thousand years. We can judge and discern the best method for our adoption, instead of indulging ourselves in the way the ordinary people are transacting their business round about us.

Our senses respond readily to the objects of the phenomena. Supersensuous objects are simply neglected. The eternal representations, the eternal manifestations and the eternal aspects are fully neglected. We aspire to have the fullest advantage of coming in touch with all desirable things. In our present life, we find that we are troubled by many distressful agents. We find that all these are treacherous and only lead us to the satisfaction of our senses only. This non-absolute propaganda should cease. Whatever else we may do, we should make it a point that we should have neither diffidence nor indolence in offering our services to the Absolute.

The word "Absolute" is explained in different ways. We have experience of the non-absolutes and undesirable objects of the phenomena. Our mind is found to be of a non-absolute nature. The mind discerns things for the purpose of the senses only. The Absolute is delineated as One who has reserved the right of not being exposed to human senses. If the Absolute was an object of the phenomena, we would be lording it over Him. But that is not the correct situation. We should dedicate ourselves as His servitors. We should not think that we are enjoyers and He is the predominated object of our enjoyment. He is never so.

We are obliged to pass through undesirable situations. We want to get rid of all these things. Our inner impulse should be to have access to that region where all objects will offer us special opportunity of having association with the Absolute. Our purpose should be to associate with the Fullness, with the Eternity, with the Purity, with the Best of desirables, and not to mix with the temporary things of delusive nature. We should not have a crippled idea of God-head. We should wait for the transcendental message to come to us in full. We would have then an opportunity of associating with Him. We should set apart some time to make progress towards the investigation of the Transcendence.

We are very small. Some overwhelming influence comes upon us and we are troubled. So we should have recourse to the Absolute Infinity. We should not be acting like shooting stars in flying away from Him, but we should go back to our original place. There the manifestive nature is eternally present, whereas here the phenomenal objects are meant for a few days only. So we should have this eternal benefit as our objective. We can ignore all these influences of nature, all influences of scientific discoveries, if we have the determination to associate ourselves only with the Whole Entity.

There are many things concealed and hidden and not revealed to us, and these are to be received through our aural reception. Our auditory nerves should be trained to be susceptible to sound waves from the transcendental messenger so that we can make progress towards the Transcendence.

Talk to Prof. Dr. Stella Kramrisch, M.A., Ph.D

December 9, 1931

The Name of the Personality of God-head is Vishnu. The impersonal face is designated Brahman in Sanskrit to denote 'magnanimous', 'large', 'big', etc., representing the macroscosmic view. The Personality which is apart from His creation is Vishnu. Vishnu has three Energies. One of them is meant for manifestation of His eternal Abode, another Potency is for creating all human souls who are emanations from His Tatastha-shakti found between the temporal and eternal worlds. By this potency He creates human souls. The human soul has two different predilections. If he desires to serve God-head he is allowed into the Eternal Region. If he desires to lord it over this world he comes down for enjoying in different capacities the products of the Deluding Potency.

In this world everything is changing and transforming, everything is subject to birth, growth and death. In the present form of existence we cannot expect to be otherwise than being subject to birth, growth and death. The position is always changing. When we do not want to be subject to these we feel the necessity of seeking a way to get back to the original position. This position, which is like the geometrical line, is designated Tatastha-shakti, the fountain-head of all human souls. Tatastha-shakti is located between the two potencies of Vishnu one of which maintains this transforming world and the other is the source of the manifestation of the eternal world that does not change like this world. These potencies belong to the Personality of God-head Vishnu.

Rudra, God of destruction and Brahma, God of generation are two wings of the Personality of Vishnu. Some people think that the destructive aspect of the Divine Personality should be final, that the goal should be cessation of all activity. They prefer the worship of the destructive face i.e. Rudra or Shiva. But the destructive function is only a specific department of the Divine Activities. Existence is different from destruction. The Eternal funcion [sic] of cherishing and fostering all sorts of manifestations, is strictly confined to Vishnu Who is the centre of all theism.

In the Gita the Personality of God-head is maintained everywhere. The Gita closes with the proposition that we should embrace the Feet of Vishnu leaving aside all abortive speculations. If a man does note serve Vishnu he engages himself in some other activities e.g., keeping dogs, horses etc., in order to serve them. All sorts of service are to be rendered to the Absolute. Any proposition to lord it over others means that we desire to be raised to the position of God-head Who alone is to be served by them. All of us are to render service to Him only. When there is any division or argument on this point, when we cease serving Him, we want to make things subservient or serviceable to us. If we want to enjoy, if we want that God-head should not enjoy, we don't feel that any service is necessary for Him. This leads to a serious conflict.

If I require that some one should serve me and that some one requires that I should serve him the service due to the Head is disturbed by such selfish deflection. This produces conflict of loyalties. It becomes detrimental to Harmony. Unless all activities are harmonised every one will be troubled.

We should not be meddling with earthly things that are always shifting and changing. Whenever we get a thing for supplying a want it should be to serve God-head. Otherwise we require service from others and thereby want to enjoy this world. This would debar us from the Absolute.

If we pick up shifting things we shall be dragged to some puzzling region. We would arrive at no decision. It is necessary that all our activities should be directed to the Absolute Knowledge, identical with God-head.

If we agree to serve, we would find what the position of the Absolute should be. In the Old Testament the pronoun 'It' stands for the Absolute, or the Neuter face. The Fountain-Head is deprived of animation by the proposition that all prerogative, everything predominating, should cease in the Absolute.

When we disagree from the above we think He should have some initiative. 'It' should be 'He.' The Gita refers to a 'He-God.' The Moiety of the Thing is thus established. The predominating Aspect is recognised. The predominated Aspect is ignored. The Masculine should have the reciprocal Feminine Aspect. Otherwise one Moiety is ignored. The Two Moieties form the Complete Whole. Matter which has no initiative is eliminated.

The two halves of the Whole viz., the Predominating the predominated Aspects, should be represented. The Distinctive Monism of Shri Ramanuja admits three fundamental entities, viz., spirit, matter and their Lord, -- Chit, a-chit and Iswara.

All animate things are vested with the spiritual form. The inanimate cannot exercise any activity, cannot take the initiative. The Masculine and Feminine both show initiative faculties. Inanimate form should not be traced as the Fountain-Head.

The choice up to this has lain between 'It-God' and 'He-God'. There is also a third alternative viz., a 'She-God'. We have decided that 'He-God' is the subject to be ascertained and not 'It-God'. It-God is equivalent to Agnosticism, Scepticism, Atheism, etc. If any methodic or cosmic principle is to be admitted we should require that 'It-God' cannot produce He-God. Because He-God can take initiative. It-God cannot. The pair, 'He' and 'She' is Union and is the Second Form. Before this animation is wholly or partially eliminated from God.

In the Gita the male Form is represented as the God. The Feminine Form of God-head should supply the full Integral Value by satisfying the requirements of the reciprocal situation in animation. Sita-Rama standard of Theism, in which the Ethical side is fully manifested, may be taken as the favourite instance of the third or "Pair-God' form.

But what appears at first sight to be the special merit of the worship of Sita-Rama, viz., its ethical value safeguarded by one Consort and one Husband, also restricts the Predominating Aspect of the Absolute to that value, on the ground that in this world it would create great dissension if the husband should have many wives. The Feminine share is ignored by this mundane reference.

The fourth stage of Thesim [sic] is supplied by the worship of Krishna as King of Dwaraka. Krishna is One Master served by hundreds and thousands of souls who follow Him. Hundred and thousands of wives serve Krishna by the relation of consort-hood. We have every right to join the service of God-head in that capacity.

Human souls are many, but the Over-Soul is One. Ramanuja says that plurality of wives should be allowed to serve God-head, while others who hold that Divine service should be restricted to Rishis living in the Dandaka forest, require that we should have Rama as our consort. Sita would refuse us this favour. Theism is restricted by reference to this world. The equilibrium that is sought, is not maintained. We males have got to pass through one sort of ideas and females through another. But our experience is a perverted reflection.

We are many. We must not think that our Lord should be many. Polytheistic thought must be avoided. The Christian Theology offers a Male-God, Who is Father and Creator of everything. But Male-God without the feminine Moiety cannot produce any boy here. That sort of idea of Male-God would not give us fullness of devotion.

Lakshmi-Narayana is better than Male-God. Rama-sita is also better. In Dwarakesha (King of Dwaraka) we find that He is Lord of many subservients. Many servitors are allowed access to Him as their Husband.

In this world there are found five different reciprocal relationships. If the reverential view of worship is allowed we are deprived of confidential services. If we serve Rama only we can do so in two capacities, either as His menial servant or as His subservient friend. We cannot suppose that we are better friends of Rama than Himself. We can also be neutral towards Him. In Son-hood of God, we understand the Birth and Childhood of God-head. We are care-takers of our son. We as parents can serve Him as a Boy. This is the form of Bala-Gopala (Cow-Boy) worship. In the fourth stage of Theism parental love may not be directed to the mundane boy; but the Transcegdental [sic] Boy is placed in that position.

The external or internal body is not the soul. The ownership of both is attributed to the soul. These bodies are the outward apparel. We require a loftier foliage, a truer expansion than is possible for them in order to approach God-head. In other words we need not be restricted to the atheistic face. The qualitative (Saguna) and non-qualitative (Nirguna) alike restrict us to a particular form. This should not be.

There are four different restricted groups viz., the ideas of thoughtless atheists and those corresponding respectively to the qualitative, the non-qualitative and neuter faces of the Absolute by mundane reference. These are the non-Theistic groups. In the Theistic group there are (1) Male-God, (2) Vague Pair-God (Lakshmi-Narayana), (3) Definite Pair-God viz., Rama-Sita. These also are restricted by reference to the ethical principle, which has proved efficacious here. We should not carry this mundane reference thither to make the realm of the Absolute also miserable. That realm is a permanent region. If we think it is not permanent we would be pessimists and cynics always afraid of troubles from outside.

We should have a Theistic turn of mind. God-head need not be dissociated from the principles of Real Existence, Knowledge and Bliss (Sat, Chit, Ananda). We are never God. Pantheists think that after liberation we are God and identical with that Thing, that God should have no reference to observer, observation and observed as this is our bitter experience here. As these troublous positions are found to be against our peace here, we are deluded to accept the position of atheists to merge the distinctions in a union where there is no specification.

In the actual liberated condition we need not think that we should merge in the Absolute and that there should be no differentiation between God-head and our humble selves. Such thinking, which belongs to the conditioned state, is pure hallucination.

God-head should have a position which should not be confused with that of hundreds and thousands of souls here. He should be possessed of qualities that are not to be compared to ours and we should find a permanent position of relationship to Him.

That our present position is for a time and it is to end on merging with the Absolute, is Upanishadic speculation. In it mind is confused as soul. Our soul is now lying in a dormant condition. The soul delegates power to mind to meddle with the affairs of this world. Mind and soul have different location and different attributes. Matter and soul are supposed to be one by Pantheists.

Theism proper is found in the Gita. The Ramayana gives us the worship of Rama-sita. The Pancharatra offers the worship of the Eternal Pair-God. In Rama-Sita our ethical merits are met. The Predominating aspect in man needs to be restricted but not the Predominating Aspect of God-head.

The empiricists often show dread of changing things. They shift their positions when they meet with contrary arguments. They also learn from their professors, in the same way. This will not lead to the Absolute.

We should find the Position of God-head in the Absolute and non-Absolute. In the Eleventh chapter of the Gita, Arjuna is shown a figure of God-head. The sun and moon are His eyes. All smaller gods, the whole universe and all others attributions which are not shown to Arjuna by his chariot-Driver, are displayed to the view of Arjuna. These are delegated to Baladeva, the Second Facsimile of God-head in Whom all sorts of powers are to be found.

The first Face is free from all mundane reference. Such reference would minimize Him. Those who are truly subservient will approach the True Face of God-head. Dazzled persons approach the second Divine Personality as Baladeva. They cannot touch Krishna and his consort Radha in the region where there are innumerable pairs.

All-Potency is delegated with the Second Facsimile, the creator of the different aspects of Theism traced by us. But He is not the Supreme Authority. Krishna is Supreme. But He has delegated all powers.

The position of God-head is All-round. We have only two eyes. We see only half the horizon. Looking up at the sky we see the zodiac but not the other half viz., that containing the meridinal stars. We cannot see this other half unless there is rotation. When a globular sphere is considered we can see only a quarter of the globe as in this mundane world. So far as the sphere is considered only one-fourth is shown to us, but we can calculate from the sight of the quarter. There are the first, second, third and fourth quadrants.

In the Pancharatra God-head is visible here by mundane activity in the first quadrant only; Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna and Aniruddha forming the All-Round Circle. Shankaracharya repudiated the four Gods. The Hindu Astronomy has twenty-four divisions of the arc. There are twenty-four Vaikunthas in each quadrant. The Jainas have tought that the Jinas are twenty-four. The Vaishnavas do not subscribe to that view, as they are uncompromising Theists.

Q: -- How to get such super-mundane realisation?

A: -- Knowledge of first dimensions is acquired first. All mental speculation should cease. All forms of service for God-head mean that our mind should first of all be controlled. The mind is busy picking up ideas and thoughts from this world. If these are carried there it would be anthropomorphic. There should be no such attribution to God-head.

We have to engage in hundred percent service. We should know that the apotheotic ideas cannot be tolerated, and should be ruled out of consideration. We should be always hearing the Absolute through the transcendental Sound. The sound of our atmosphere describes Nature's products. It informs us about America or any corner of the globe. The aptitude should be dismissed in the case of transcendental Sound which is not from this region of three dimensions.

Sound from the Absolute Realm (Vaikuntha) has a peculiar reference. It requires no corroboration by the other senses. In the case of mundane sound nasal activity is required to test its correctness, the tongue and other senses must also help in the process. There are always the four corroborative senses that are engaged in testing the validity of the mundane sound. But they are quite unserviceable in the case of the transcendental Sound.

The transcendental Sound has got a popular distinctive reference of its own. It refers to Non-divisible Absolute Knowledge (Advaya-Jnana). No challenge is to be offered to that Sound. If these examinations fail to follow that Sound He would still act on our system and we should still listen to Him and ask questions to satisfy us as to whether anything can be traced of that Sound.

The transcendental Sound comes here to designate God-head. The transcendental Sound is the Name of God-head. The mundane sound designates something else than itself. The transcendental Sound should be heard and no challenging question should be placed to contradict it. The Absolute should be only approached and should not be opposed by any empiric acquisition. It will be killing time if we do otherwise.

We should be always attending, and trying to know by interrogatories. We do not pay sufficient attention so long as we think that He should be challenged from other positions. But the Absolute does not propose to be challenged by any sensuous experience. The transcendental Sound comes through one who does not desire to meddle with anything of this world as the Chemists, Physicists, and others do, who do not remember older ideas in the course of enjoying the troublous process of approaching the mundane sound.

The transcendental Sound would destroy all acquisitions. To take the help of those acquisitions would be like taking help of the lantern for the purpose of looking for the Sun. We should not take such help. This sort of education has no propriety, no efficacy there. The transcendental Sound should come through the uncontaminated pipe of the true devotee. One who thinks that he should have anything to do with this world cannot be the bearer of the message of the Absolute.

All things are found to evaporate even before they are acquired. This is the case when there is a paralytic seizure. There are two quite different things, the external body and the subtle body which are impeding our progress. If we are relieved of this, if we ignore this, if we do not lead our lives like ordinary people of this world, we would get rid of the construction of our incorporated bodies.

The soul is quite different from the physical body and the internal mind. The working of the brain or sense-percepts would lead to atheism. This is the plight of men who are busy with the acquisitions of the senses. The soul is wrapped up by the subtle body and confined to the mundane representations. These exoteric impressions of the soul are not true Theism.

The soul is free from the subtle body just as we are free when we cast off our old apparel. These bodies are brought from outside. The Ego is different, it is their proprietor and need not be wrapped up nor incorporated by these tempting thoughts of this world by material considerations. We should be always dismissing mental speculation when receiving the transcendental Sound. This sort of knowing, willing, feeling need not be incoporated. [sic] We should sever our connection; otherwise it would lead us to subscribe to metempsychosis and we would think that as we have more lives in store 'we could make up in our later lives for our present sins and so in this life let us be sinning'. By one-life theory people would be more careful.

A man should be thoroughly ethical. He must not be encroaching upon the right of others. But mental demeanour is made up of things that would lead to those troubles. The mentalist is, therefore, not at all moral. This poor idea of morality is found among many of us here, even though they may have a sufficient long existence.

Interviews with Mr. Willion Henri Jan Vandor Stok of Bavaria

December 26, 1935

Q: -- Your Holiness, kindly enlighten me about the different aspects of human pursuits.

A: -- In India as in Europe we find people holding different views, but here we have attempted to classify them into three divisions. One class of people are seekers of fruits of their action. Another class wish to annihilate their individuality. And the third class want, in their true selves as absolute infintesimals, to be in touch with the Absolute Infinity, rejecting all non-absolute features. We belong to the third party.

The seekers of fruits by means of their actions are called Karmakandins in the Sanskrit language. The Christian way of thinking about life is included in Karmakanda. In India we have also that sort of idea, that a person is to be judged by his action. He gets something in return as a reward for his pious deeds. Virtue and piety are the main principles that are wanted by such doers. Most people understand this common view, which holds that what I do will be either rewarded or reprimanded. We think that we should live a pious life in order that we may be rewarded in our next life with all sorts of enjoyments. We have got subtle bodies in which we are rewarded or punished. That body is not exactly similar to the ordinary gross body, the mortal coil which we see here. Egyptians thought that they have but one life and that they should have no occasions to bear future lives. But persons who subscribe to the theory of metempsychosis think that they will have future lives when they can make up for the nefarious acts done both in their present lives and in their past lives, and receive grace from the great dispenser of justice. They are fruit-seekers. They want to gratify their senses.

There are persons who hanker after knowledge. They went [sic] to secure knowledge by the empiric method. To them annihilation is the final goal. They think they should merge in the Integer, the Absolute, and that all the undesirable situations of this world will end with this merging. In that case observer, observation and observed, these three situations are eliminated. When all the activities of the senses such as hearing, tasting, smelling, seeing and touching will cease, the observer, observation and the observed will mix up together and there will be no occasion for knowing, willing or feeling. All volitional, cogitational and emotional activities should cease, because they have given us a bitter experience; and so, according to the empiricists, in order to make an end of them, it would be better for us not to think of anything which will respond to our senses. This idea is formulated by theorists like pantheists, agnostics, and sceptics. These people think that they will be able to secure happiness by destroying their identify.

The third view is the theistic view. We believe that there is a Personality of God-head and that we are persons. We want our troublous situations to be eliminated and wish to reach a peaceful position where we can freely move and have everything, whatever we are in need of; and this has resulted in directing us to the Absolute Who is represented as a Personality. In the Absolute Personality we find three features: He is Ever-existent, He is ever full of knowledge and He is the Fountain-head of unceasing bliss. In Him there is no factor of time, no factor of ignorance. In Him there is no discrepancy, no defect, no inadequacy, nothing of the kind. In our conception of God, we hold He is the Emporium of all bliss, all knowledge, and no acts of nescience or ignorance are to be associated with Him, and we should not seek after any fruit for our worldly purpose, leaving Him aside. He need not give us anything. We are to serve Him as servitors, He being the only Lord. In this world we find that hundreds of absolute infinitesimals trouble themselves with the undesirable elements of these phenomena. If the undesirable elements are simply driven out, eliminated, then a desirable position can be had. But in the ordinary conception of heaven, we find that it is meant for our purpose, to get our wishes for enjoyment fulfilled, for our enjoyment apart from the enjoyment of the Absolute. The enjoyment of the Absolute is full, whereas our enjoyment is liable to be involved in some troubles. All these miserable situations should be avoided for the purpose of safety, for our peace. The eternal peace can only come if we are at all eager to engage ourselves in the service of the Lord, I mean, the Personality of God-head. God has got spiritual eyes, spiritual ears, spiritual nose, spiritual tongue, spiritual skin and spiritual mind; not material things like us. Our senses are made up of material things and there is no such element in God. God is the Emporium of all desirable elements. He is found to be eternally Existing, He is full of knowledge, He is Omniscient and He is All-blissful. He delegates His power to certain absolute infinitesimals, or, in other words, the absolute infinitesimals are endowed with such potencies which enable them to transact affairs with the Eternal Authority. Ordinarily we are placed in a region where all sorts of imperfections and undesirable situations are prominent, and we require that our bitter experience should devise some means to get rid of these unpleasant situations; the painful propensities must be kicked out from our activities. We should be prepared for the stage where we can realise our own real selves. We should not trouble ourselves here engaging ourselves in amusements and other things. It is necessary that some prudent, preparatory measures should be adopted during this life, that we should acquire the discretion to judge what is really desirable and making a thorough study of the revealed scriptures which have come to us, find out how we could ameliorate our conditions and give up the passionate desires that are engrossing such people as are busy with annihilating themselves or with fruit-seeking endeavours.

The third party is known as Bhaktas or devotees who possess Bhakti which is the vehicular agent to carry us to the Absolute. It will act as the tie uniting the Personality of the Lord and our personalities. Our persons should be united with the Personality of God, and that Personality of God-head is purely spiritual and has no mundane reference. If we wish to know Him by any mundane reference that would be like trying to send rays from the retina to the sun. Just as we receive rays emanating from the self-luminous disc of the sun, so by the mercy of the Supreme Lord we will be able to know what He is, and after learning this, we will engage ourselves for His purpose. We will have nothing else to do in this world. We have got the only purpose of associating ourselves with the Spirit, with the Over-soul. When we leave this mortal coil, we will be engaged in some occupation or other, but we should not think that in the subtle bodies we will continue these conditions and have our enjoyment. This enjoyment is temporary and in the long run becomes the cause of binding us to grosser coils. But if we have any mind to engage ourselves with the Eternity, with All-knowledge, and One Who is devoid of ignorance and full of incessant Bliss, we must respond to His call, we should be participating with the Absolute and not with the non-absolute environment here. Our phenomenal existence is not at all sympathetic to our highest aspiration. Our so-called relatives show that they are very kind to us, but in the end we find that they too wish to draw something from us and at best have only some wordly motive. They are not kind to us in the best sense. We should not be dissuaded by their influence. We should have a stern will to give up all our passionate enjoying habits, as well as the inclination for self-annihilation which the empricists {sic] seek. The desire for annihilation as well as the tendency for enjoyment are to be sacrificed at the altar of devotion. They do wrong things. They enjoy instead of serving, and we want that we should be set free from all these wrong ideas of the speculative people of the world. We are aware of the history of civilisation for the last ten thousand years and we expect that when the world shall have run for some ten thousand years more some new troubles will arise and the human race will be destroyed by some influence which we cannot foretell now. So, the Absolute is to be enquired into, what He is, whether He is a human being, or whether He belongs to the lower creation, or whether He is of a stony character; whether the Absolute is neuter, masculine or feminine. Let us strive to acquaint ourselves with all these ideas and thoughts about the next world and the Absolute: whether the region of the Absolute has all sorts of manifestive phases, whether these phases are agreeable and free from invasion of wrong thoughts. So, if we want to wash off all our wrong conceptions we will have to surrender to the Absolute Infinity and then we shall be in touch with Him. We will have the opportunity of dove-tailing ourselves with Him and no other ideas and thoughts should dissuade us from having touch with the Absolute. If we can secure the tendency of love for the Absolute, we will be attracted by Him. He Himself is Love. We have no loving tendency, whereas He is full of love. We should try to meet the merciful strain by which He wants to attract us to Him, to His region where there is no defect, no disagreeable feature, no ignorance and no undesirable situation. We should go back there. We do not carry our bones and flesh there. The proprietor of these bones and flesh is to go there, leaving here all these dirty appurtenances for the enjoyment of jackals and dogs and those creatures of the lower creation who have no devotional motive at all, who do not want to come in touch with the Absolute Infinity.

Most of the people of the globe are very busy with getting fruits, gratifying their senses by attending cinemas, driving motorcars and they are quite indifferent about serving those who can guide them to the Absolute region. All the undesirable situations which impeded our course are to be eliminated. The enjoying and empirical activities are obstructing our ways and we should try to drive them off. We should want that we should be in touch only with the Absolute. As devotees, we are always in touch with Him and never dissociated from Him. We want to serve Him. We want to regain our position. We need not pass our time just as ordinary people do. We should submit to the heaven-sent messenger and follow his dictations. Our philosophies and empirical knowledge will be of no use to us. Our devotion should not be directed towards dogs, horses, men and women and other object of worldly phenomena. We need not serve such things. We should be determined to come in touch with the Absolute Who is very different from the non-absolute phenomena. Any person or thing that serves the Personality of God, should be treated in a friendly manner. And if any persons or thing proves hostile in the cause of His service, we should leave that off. We should not try to understand the spiritual plane from the material standpoint.

Q: -- What do you understand by spiritual land?

A: -- By Spiritual world we mean where we can have association with the spirit. The Absolute reserves the right of not being exposed to human senses. The human senses are all prisoners. They are all blind fellows. They cannot see Him. Rather they indulge in wrong ideas and give trouble to the people. The word "God" has been created by man. The direction is quite right, but what men produce in their factory is wrong. The people are engaged in non-absolute propaganda. This should cease.

Q: -- Those who work for the welfare of the people, are they not good?

A: -- Some people try to be good in order to enjoy a peaceful life. They are friendly to others to get their help in return, and in most cases the aim is worldly contentment.

Q: -- How should we know the will of God?

A: -- We are absolute infinitesimals and He is Absolute Infinity. If we are sincere and submit to Him, we will come in touch with Him, and know His Will. There are self-sufficient people who think they can, by their empirical knowledge, know everything. But the Absolute cannot be known by our empirical knowledge. This attempt would be like sending rays from the retina to the sun to know what the sun is. We should have nothing to do with the agnostics and Karmakandins of this world. They will try to dissuade us from having an aptitude for devotion. The devotees are the most intelligent people. We should await the day when the Merciful Lord will send His messenger to give us that cessation of all connections with the world which we call death. We shall then be able to live the life of devotees. Our selection of friends should be among the devotees. The agnostics and karmakandins will only lead us to trouble. The devotees are the only prudent and judicious people. The path of devotion is the shortest and easiest way. It is better that whatever we have gathered in this world, we should leave aside. We want to disown everything that is deemed to be quite suitable to persons who are busy with mundane affairs. We should consider ourselves lower than the blade of grass. We have now secured some non-absolute things which are quite inefficacious for our purpose. We should simply submit to the instructions of the devotees whose only occupation is to come in touch with the Absolute.

Q: -- What do you think of the yogis?

A: -- We do not subscribe to the principle of yoga. The Yogis think that they should have some-thing for their own. They have no eternal purpose. The Indian yogis think that when they come in touch with the Absolute, they will be restored to their original position and they will have nothing to do later on. They simply want emancipation from all troubles. The yogi thinks that when his duties are finished he will be able to pass his time in indulgence. So indulgence is the ultimate object of a yogi. And for this they strive for emancipation from the bonds of karma. The devotees are first class yogis, but they care very little for emancipation. They do not require these things. A devotee would be more happy to abide by the decision of Providence instead of throwing off the troublous situation he has been put into. The Yogis are inclined to have some personal motive, because, they require peace for themselves. They do not want to engage themselves in the service of the Lord, but they try to get something for their own. If a yogi is at all successful in his endeavours to come in contact with the Absolute, He shows his stony aspect at that time. The yogis think that God should be represented as a neuter thing, that no idea of sex should disturb their mind. The yogis want to reach kaivalya of "Iswara-sayujya" and "Brahma-Sayujya". They want to be made into God, like the slave Altamsh who usurped the throne of his masters. These are wrong ideas. The yogis are never successful in their attempts and we should not adopt the principles of a yogi. In paradise all sorts of enjoyments are supplied. But who is the enjoyer? He is a poor man who has got all sorts of bitter experience in this world.

It is better for us not to be agnostics, yogis, karmakandins and empiricists.

The Supreme Lord disclosed before the people the true system of devotion. There was no party who could claim a better system. The karmakandins and jnanins gave up their established ideas and thoughts, they all submitted to the true and loving wishes of the supreme Authority Whom we want to seek. The Supreme Authority is to be served and not the things which are hostile to the Supreme Authority.

What should be the Supreme Authority? What is He? Should the word "it" serve for indicating the Absolute? Or should the predominating aspect be addressed as 'he' and the predominated aspect as 'she'? The followers of the Old Testament like to apply "it" to God and want that God should be neuter, and that no personal forms should be attributed to Him, in order to differentiate Him from the phenomenal existence. Some people say that if only the subjective aspect is ascribed to God-head then the subjective [sic] aspect of God-head is neglected. We require that God-head should comprise both subjective and objective aspects. There must be some objects for the subject otherwise the subjectivity cannot stand. When we talk of some relationship, the reciprocating portion should never to neglected. In theism we find that the predominating part should reciprocate the predominated parts; these two parts should comprise the Whole thing, otherwise the Plenary is divided into two, or is divided into three.

Here in this world we find various relationships like that between husband and wife, between master and servant, between friend and friend and between children and parents. In the transcendental region the Supreme Lord is the only object of these relationships. He is the only Husband, the only Master, the only friend and the only Child. There is also the neutral relationship with God-head. So in all we find there are five kinds of relationships we can have with the Supreme Lord. In the New Testament God is described as God the Father, God the son and God the Holy Ghost; but they neglect the five relationships mentioned above. Service of God in these five relationships has been given to mankind by Shri Krishna Chaitanya. Service is the only function of the soul. We ignore the body when we are busy with the service of the Lord.

Q: -- Why do you require service?

A: -- Of all the occupations the best one is to attend to the service of the Absolute. Man wants to lord it over the phenomena, but in the long run he becomes a slave of the phenomena. For instance, there are people who wish to enjoy smoking and intoxicating liqueurs, but ultimately they become slaves of those habits. We devotees do not want our entities to be absorbed in the Integer, we want to adopt the process of devotion and have some permanent engagement. We should examine what we really are. Are we the external frame, the emporium of sense or the mind? If we analyse, we find that these are foreign elements incorporated into us. In order to get rid of al this dirt, the only course left to us is devotion which is service, service fully filtered and unalloyed.

Q: -- Do you know the Absolute gradually or at once?

A: -- The knowledge of the Absolute can be had all at once, there is no factor of time and space. If we are at all intent on knowing Him, we must have some sort of objective reference for His subjective activity. Now we are busy with worldly affairs; we think we are men and women. Instead of doing so, we should be serving Him, and when He participates with our pure selves, we will be set free from all the tempting influence of the different things of Nature. We want that we should go back. Like a shooting star, we have strayed out of the range of His attraction. Like a comet, we are journeying without cessation. Our eternal condition is that we are absolute infinitesimals, and as such, we should dove-tail with the Absolute Infinity. The function between Him and us is love. He is the Lover. If He loves us, we will be taken back. If He has an apathetic tendency towards us it is because we are averse to Him; and we will be undergoing 84 millions of births and deaths, again and again. It would be judicious for us that we should go back to the Absolute Infinity, and that all our engagement should be with Him, and not with anybody else.

Prof. Albert E. Suthers Interviews

The Author Answers Questions of

Professor Suthers of Ohio University

January, 1929

Q: -- What is Vedantism?

A: -- One-sided and biased critics may understand absolute monism by the term Indian Vedantism, but those who are impartial and who judge things from all angles of vision, find the transcendental personality of God-head as the settled conclusion of the Vedantic doctrine. The theory of non-distinction has been wrongly preached as propounded in the Vedanta, before a world which is averse to God, being disguised with the imperfect, partial and distorted conception of the Vedanta Philosophy of India which is the universal reality. In reality the doctrine of personality of God-head is the proper conclusion of the Vedanta and that is the true interpretation of the Vedanta by the unbiased learned scholars.

The unique and genuine interpretation of the Vedanta, as contained in the Shrimad Bhagavatam, points at the true Vedantic doctrine. Shri Vyasadeva, the compiler of the Vedanta-sutras, has himself as commentator elucidated the true meaning of the Sutras or aphorisms compiled by him, in the Shrimad Bhagavatam which reveals their intrinsic import which equalises all sides, reconciles all diversities and is beyond all sectarian conflicts created by various professors of empiric knowledge, who give different shapes to the Vedanta in their laboratories of mental researches. It is only they that secure the true Vedantic principles from the Shrimad Bhagavatam who can save themselves from the danger of falling into the ditches of various imaginary principles and wrong sectarianism.

To be brief, the difference between the followers of Mayavada, or absolute-monism and the Vaishnava Vedantics is that the former have a bias for the idea of Nirvisesha or non-distinction, whereas the latter accept the eternality of Personal God-head. The monists are atheists in disguise; on the other hand the Vaishnavas are sincere theists; the former are followers of the method of induction i.e. the process of reasoning from particular data to a general one, and the latter are followers of the deductive method of reasoning by which we arrive at the necessary consequences of admitted or established premises; i.e. a monist is inimical towards self-surrender to God, while a Vaishnava is inclined towards it. Most of the intelligentsia of the present day India are empiricists and as such, more or less, supporters of the Mayavada of the monists. Acharya Shankara has extensively propagated this Mayavada by dint of his exceeding intelligence and thus been able to captivate men's minds.

The supporters of Savisesha-vada, the doctrine of eternity of personal Godhead, are known as Vaishnavas or theists. We shall call any persons of any country and any era as Vaishnavas or theists to the same extent that this Saviseshavada is found in them. We think that the noble Jesus propagated Saviseshavada, as Acharyas Shri Visnuswami, Shri Ramanuja, Shri Madhva, Shri Nimbarka, etc., did in India. The Saviseshavada as propagated by all the teachers of the world, more or less, found perfection in the preachings of the different Indian Acharyas, which have attained the climax of mutual reconciliation of all souls of pure knowledge distinct from matter. This Savisesha is the conclusion of Mahaprabhu Shri Krishna Chaitanya Dev, Who, though God Himself, played the part of a Supra-human Professor of the University of Nadia.

Q: -- Did the worshippers of Krishna encourage the obscenity of the engravings on many Hindu Temples?

A: -- Those who are actual worshippers of Krishna are never in favour of indecencies. All decency and morality only are entirely confined to the Lotus-Feet of Shri Krishna. The highest sense of morality of the unadulterated soul consists in its love towards the Over-soul. And the culmination of this pure love is found only in the devotees of Krishna. The best of the moral rules as preached by the noble Jesus, do not come anywhere near the principle of the Amorous Love of the devotees of Krishna, for service thereof.

Q: -- Your Holiness seems to have taken a biased view in saying that the good moral precepts of Christ come nowhere near "the morality" of amorous love of the devotees of Krishna".

A: -- Certainly not. We claim to be greater and better Christians than Westerners. Our judgment is not restricted only to secular morality. The morality of the object of spiritual love transcends the supra-natural morality, which again surpasses secular morality. If Christian morality is perfected thereby, then it may be said to receive proper nourishment. To a pure soul that remains situated on that transcendentally moral plane of love, the secular moralities appear reduced to the smallness of pygmies. But there is not found any feeling of apathy, nor attachment towards these secular moralities. On the other hand all moralities wait like maids behind the spiritual moralities to become glorified, being permitted to serve the Lord of transcendental Love. The character of a culturist of spiritual love is never devoid of morality. One hostile to morality or fallen from it can never be a spiritual man. In the blaze of the teaching of Shri Chaitanya Deva's ideal, it has been propagated that dissoluteness is not devotion. Its palpable evidence is found when we reflect on the character of Shri Chaitanya Deva or the followers at His heel. The people of the realm of the secular morality concerned with the worldly enjoyments and their renunciation will not be able to grasp in their tiniest brains how fostered by the climax of morality and how adored in the highest degree by all the morality of the universe are the Amorous Sports of Krishna so much glorified by the noble clan of such high personages of strictly continent character as the devotees of Shri Chaitanya Deva like Shri Rupa, Shri Sanatana, Shri Raghunatha Dasa, Shri Raghun tha [sic] Bhatta, Shri Gopal Bhatta, etc.

Q: -- How can your Holiness's statements be reconciled with the descriptions that are found about Krishna's amorous sports?

A: -- Krishna's Amorous Sports are not temporal like the lustful sports of dramatic heroes and heroines like Romeo-Juliet or even ideal spouses. Lust as prevalent in this world is only a mental passion; but the lust of the transcendental region of Krishna has its own form. Here lust is always goaded by the enemy (one of the six passions); where in the transcendenral [sic] region of Krishna, the loveliness of the spiritual Body of Krishna ever drives the Lust for Krishna, which takes form as sublimated love or the desire to gratify the immaculate senses of Krishna. The conductor of the worldly lust is the enemy (passion), and the conductor of love is Krishna. It is amorous Sports of Krishna that have appropriateness; but there is no such consistency in the lust born of the body and mind of jiva (creature). Krishna's Amorous Sports are not to be called indecency, because it is Krishna Who is the only one unrivalled Enjoyer, Embodiment of the Real Truth and the Spiritual Despot.

Q: -- I cannot fully appreciate this; please let me understand a little more clearly.

A: -- Suppose there are some angles, two right angles, four right angles, etc. There is the contracted character of a corner in the acute, obtuse or right angle. But in the two right angles called the straight angle, even though called an angle, there is no contractedness or want of straightness, as is the case with angles in general. Such is the case with the Autocrat Krishna. There is no want or contractedness or despicable character or indecency in the Perfect Entity Krishna, like the circle of 360 degrees, though the communities of enjoyers or renouncers, championing morality or immorality, may, due to the meagreness of their intellect, wrongly regard the lustfulness of Krishna, the result of His depotism which is only His, as vulgar like that of common men and other creatures.

Q: -- In the scriptures of India, adorable Deities have been represented as creatures of the lower creation like fish, tortoise, boar, etc. Is this approved by the sense of decency of civilised humanity? Some again are in favour of supporting such representations as allegorical symbols.

A: -- Imagination does not find a place in Vaishnava Philosophy. In it or in the Shrimad Bhagavatam which is the highest scripture for all men in the universe has been described the topmost ontology about God, million times better than what the most civilised races of humanity five thousands years old, nay, as old as several millions of eras, can conceive of even in imagination. The eternal transcendental forms of God that descend or are manifested according to the gradual evolution of the aptitude for offering service by the totally purified soul quite aloof from the regions of the body and mind, when man becomes the worshipper of the ultimate Reality at the loftiest stage of civilisation, are never the idols of imagination or allegories like unreal things manufactured in the mental factory of man or like the imaginary animal deities of the barbarians such as the tiger-god, serpent-god, horse-god, etc. The worship of the Vishnu Incarnations, like Fish, Turtle, etc., is not fabrication of imagination like that of one of the five deities of the Henotheists formed out of imagination, based on the coinage of set speeches like the imaginary conception of the forms of Brahman (as in the Panchadasi of the monistic school). The Henotheists do not admit the Transcendental Personality of Godhead. The sects of figurative allegorists like the Theosophists are not real theists, cherishing, as they do, doubt against the Personality of God and for that reason they want to curtail god's Omni-potentiality and his Transcendental Names, Appearances, Attributes, Sports by means of allegorical description. The Vaishnava philosophy or that of the ever-existent religion of India has never supported the atheistic doctrines of such professors of imaginary forms of Brahman, or figurative allegorists. It is about the doctrine of pure and real Avatara-vada (cult of Incarnation) that the philosophy of the ever-existing Indian religion has said. As the pure and real doctrine of Avataras of Fish, Turtle, etc. of the Vaishnavas is not a kind of imagination of the barbarian taste, nor the idolatry of the Mayavadins on the basis of their aphorism of forms of Brahman, imagined for the convenience of practicants, nor the allegorical description of the psychists, so it is not the Anthropomorphism (i.e. representation of the deity as having human forms), as devised by the so-called civilised section of the people, nor Therianthropism (i.e. representation of one's tutelary deity in a combined man-and-beast form), nor even Apotheosis (i.e. elevating man to the dignity of deities). These are respective types of the idolatry of the menatal speculationists of the inductive school. In imitation of Mayavada, the evil fruit of the Indian civilisation, Anthropomorphsim was invented in Greece and Rome and Therianthropism in Egypt, etc. When the new doctrines got access in those countries along with the commodities produced by the Indian civilization which were based on the imagination of the anthrophysites like the Indian Mayavadins who exalted man or beasts to the status of God with the attribution of divinity to them calling jivas and the poor as 'Narayana' with gratification of the senses in the back ground, then the mental speculations of those respective countries adopted the cheap vitiated Indian dogmas and, labeling new names on them, passed these doctrinal commodities into the forum of religious tenets. But the true Vaishnava philosophy of India never indulged in any such doctrine based on imagination. Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu has refuted all such imaginative doctrines or idolatries and rejected both Anthropomorphism and Therianthropism. He vouchsafed the Shastric teaching, viz., that he must be a heretic and sinner who looks upon God Narayana as equal to deities like Brahma, etc.

Anthropomorphism i.e., representation of the Deity with human form and attributes, resembles the tenet of the Bauls of Bengal attributing divinity to the head of their sect, professing, as they do, though wrongly, to have perceptorially descended from Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. Such tenets are the mental imaginations of atheists like the Bouddhas and of the Bauls as above, running contrary to the teachings of Shri Buddha-Vishnu and Shri Chaitanya-Vishnu respectively. The Mayavadi sect too has adopted similar principles. The really scientific philosophy of the Shrimad Bhagavatam and the preachings of Shri Chaitanya Deva have, of course, accepted the human body [1] as the Divine Manifestation; but that human body is not the creation of anthropomorphism, nor of the Baul doctrine, but it is the eternal, transcendental Sachidananda Body, the Cause of all causes, the highest Sportive Entity. When the human soul can acquire the wealth of all the sciences in perfection, then only is opened the door of the foremost mystery of true science. According to the Vaishnava Philosophy, the Sportive Manifestation of God is of two kinds. One kind is the creation of the material and spiritual universe and its systematization with inviolable rules. The school of intelligent empiricists can to a certain extent experience this type of God's Sportive Manifestation. The second kind is the Descent of God's Transcendental Sport in this created universe. It is the jivas who are the attendants in His Sports. They become attached to matter having deviated from their own essential nature as the result of their desire for enjoyment.

But when again the soul of a jiva, gains true wisdom of the transcendental region of God at the feet of a representative of His, i.e., a true devotee His, he begins to get back his pure essential nature gradually unfolded, and God's Transcendental Eternal Forms appear as the objects of his worship according to the comprehension of His service in the graded evolution of acceptance of His protection, self-surrender or theism. So in such a case there remains no room, even in the slightest degree, for any form of imaginative doctrines of the so-called civilised or uncivilised human minds, whether apotheosistic, anthropomorphic, henotheistic, theosophic, theriomorphic or therianthropic. The real, eternal and transcendental Divine Forms reveal themselves to the pure souls according to the nature of their serving mood in the evolutionary growth there. The only cause of these Divine Descents is the intense Mercy of God towards jivas. In Europe the theories of physical evolution of Darwin and Lamarck have been considered. But it is in the Vaishnava Philosophy alone that we see the fully scientific and real conception of each eternal and transcendental Divine Form for worship by the freed souls according to their evolutionary growth of serving mood.

We can notice the different stages of animal life from the invertebrates to the fully grown human beings. These stages have been classified by the Indian sages of a scientific outlook in ten orders, viz, (1) the invertebrate, (2) testaceous or shelly, (3) vertebrate, (4) erectly vertebrate (as in the combined form of man and beast), (5) mannikin, (6) barbaric, (7) civilised, (8) wise, (9) ultra-wise and (10) destructive. These are the historical stages of jivas. According to the gradation of these stages as indications of evolution of the serving mood of the jiva soul, there are manifested the ten Incarnations of God, viz., Matsya (fish), Kurma (Turtle), Varaha (Boar), Nrishmha (Man-Lion), Vamana (Dwarf), Parasu-rama, Rama, Krishna, Buddha and Kalki, as worshippable Deities with eternal transcendental Names, Forms, Attributes and Sports. Those who have acquired a true knowledge about Incarnations with a thorough culture thereof, will be able, with the grace of the philosophers trained in the school of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, to appreciate the ontology of Shri Krishna, specially the intense sweetness of His Sports at Braja (i.e. Vrindavana and the neighbourhood.)

Q: -- I have just listened to many subtle truths in the science and philosophy of religion. Please let me have a conception of these intricate matters.

A: -- The essential principle of Vaishnavism is that, how-so-ever great a scholar and intellectual giant a man may be, he will not be able to appreciate even the easiest points of the Vaishnava philosophy, until and unless he has entirely surrendered himself to an Acharya whose character is the embodiment of the Vaishnava Philosophy. You must have heard about the Indian scripture named "Gita", which has been translated into different languages in the civilised world. There is a Shloka in it [2] which says that the Vaishnava Philosophy is understandable only with unconditional surrender, honest enquiry and serving temper. It is only to such an approach the professors of Vaishnava Philosophy with these three as the preceptorial fee, that they give instructions about the correct philosophical truths. These professors are never to be tempted by any type of worldly fees.

Q: -- The Gita has admitted the doctrine of the Transmigration of the soul. What does your Vaishnava Philosophy say about this?

A: -- The "Gita' is not separate from the Vaishnava Philosophy. In the Shrimad Bhagavatam has been fully revealed the true import of the doctrine, viz., that of changes of births for the soul. Christianity has disregarded the principle of change of births on the alleged ground that if it is accepted, men will not restrain their sinful propensities, rather they will indulge in vices at their sweet will in their present life, on the expectation that they will be able to make good their sins, guilts, and wrong going of this life in the course of the following ones. But the Shrimad Bhagavatam has crowned the principle with its true significance, by means of a much fuller scientific and philosophical meaning, by giving the instruction about the urgent necessity for ardently taking up and culturing devotion to God even while the human life, not easily available in the after-lives, is at our disposal, without spending a single moment thereof in other useless pursuits. If we do not accept the doctrine of transmigration of the soul and adopt the instruction of the Shrimad Bhagavatam, we shall not be able to get over the all-devouring disaster of regarding matter as the sole object of our concern, which has kept its mouth wide open.

Though most of the Christians do not admit transmigration, yet many instellectual glants [sic] of the Christian world have shown several instances of their acceptance of the doctrine. Even in the Bible [3] we find "And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man who was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, -- 'Master, who had commited the sin? This man or his parents, that he was born blind?" It is seen that even some Christian Fathers clearly gave instructions about transmigration. Origen said: "Is it not more in conformity with reason that every soul for certain mysterious reasons is introduced into a body and introduced according to its deserts and former actions?" [4] "I am sure that I, such as you see me here, have lived a thousand times and I have to come again another thousand times" says Goethe.

What the Greeks called "Metempsychosis' or what is "Transmigration' in the English language, was at one time, more or less, admitted in ancient Greece, Egypt and many places in the west. Some say that the apostles of Christ the Great, failing to reconcile their previous and subsequent conclusions with the doctrine of Transmigration, were compelled to discard it. Yet no rationalist among the Christians has been able to refute the doctrine on the basis of sound reasoning; on the other hand, most of them have had to admit it even. Heredotus, Pindar, Plato etc., have all accepted it. Huxley, the illustrious scientist of the nineteenth century, has written in his religious work, 'Evolution and Ethics': "None but very hasty thinkers will reject it on the ground of inherent absurdity, like the doctrine of evolution itself, viz., that of transmigration which has its root in the world of reality and it may claim such support as the great argument of 'Analogy' is capable of supplying."

Professor Lutoloski has said, "I cannot give up my conviction of a previous existence on earth before my birth, and I have the certainty to be born again after my death, until I have assimilated all human experiences, having been many times male and female, wealthy and poor, free and enslaved, generally having experienced all conditions of human existence." But such transmigration theories of the empiricists of the west or those of the western philosophers of the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries like Franciscus Mercurius Helmont, Leichtenburg, Lessing, Herder, Schopenhauer, etc., or of Jallaluddin Rumi of the Sufi sect of Persia, or of the Theosophists, or of the Indian Nyaya Philosophy under the aphorism: "From the desire for the mother's breast-milk due to the habit of the previous life," or of the Buddhistic doctrine of annihilation in matter - these are assailable by various hostile reasonings and, having their origin in inductive concepts are incomplete and imperfect. But the conclusion in this respect of the Shrimad Bhagavatam is fully flawless and significant. The Vaishnava Philosophy having shown the royal road to the acquirement of the highest blessedness even in the present life, there is no need for waiting for future lives. As such, the Vaishnava Philosophy is thoroughly aloof from all wrangling full of useless riddles over the doctrine of transmigration.

Q: -- I am able to feel the super-excellence of the Vaishnava Philosophy among the Indian Philosophies. But to my mind the acceptance of idolatry in the Vaishnava Philosophy like the other Indian philosophies seems to be a stigma in it.

A: -- Idolatry has never been accepted in the Vaishnava Philosophy: on the other hand, it has been more or less accepted in the other philosophies, at least mentally, if not in so many words. In the very word 'Bhagavan' (God) have accumulated all the excellences that are there in the human and supra-human conceptions. The existence of Majesty, viz. the furthermost limits of both vastness and minuteness, is a characteristic of God. The second characteristic is His Omnipotence. If one understands the word 'omnipotence' to mean what is conceivable by the human intellect or what is possible for man, one is wrong. God is Omnipotent, because what is impossible according to the human intellect is within the ambit of the inscrutable power of God. Due to His inscrutable power, He is simultaneously both with and without Form. It will be the denial of His inscrutable power, if you say that He cannot have His Form, or He has not His Eternal Form, only having a Form for the time being, none in the end. By dint of His inscrutable power, He is with His Eternal Sportive Form before a liberated soul conversant with the service of His Potencies. Contemplation only on formlessness is rather unnatural and devoid of differential excellence. God is always All-Good, All-Glory and All-Beauty. His Beauty is visible only to the transcendental eye. God is the Transcendental Reality, Pure, Full and Sentient in essence and Sentient Essence is His Form.

It is true that God has no material body, but He has His Sat (Eternal) Chit (All-Sentient) Ananda (All-Blissful) Transcendental Body visible only to the eye that is clear (devoid of matter). To the material eye, God is Formless, but to the transcendental eye He is with His Body of Chit or All-Sentience. The Moortis (forms of body) prepared and worshipped by those who have not seen this Chit-Body of God with their true and eternal eye cleansed with the collyrium of the love of God are of course idols and all the worshippers of those idols must be idolaters. The worship of mooortis of God prepared from imagination may be called idolatry. Suppose I, who have not seen Jacob, make a Moorti of his [sic] out of imagination, this Moorti is not the replica of his form. Besides, if Jacob is a creature of this world, whose body, mind and soul are different from one another, his photograph being only the replica of his material body is different from his eternal and intrinsically true form. But God with His Sat-chit-ananda Body is not such a thing; His Body and Soul are not different from each other; nor are His Name and Soul, His Figure and Soul, His Attribute and Figure, His Attribute and Soul, His Sport and Soul, His Sport and Figure, His Sport and Attribute, different. If a pure entity or unmixed soul sees that Eternal Form of God and receives It in his own pure receptacle and then places this Transcendental Form in the world from his heart as illuming the intrinsically and essentially true Form of God, that never deserves to be called an idol. Just as even by coming down to this phenomenal world, God remains untouched by the influence of maya, by dint of His inscrutable power, so does His true Form, too, as revealed to the unmixed entity of His devotee, remain above it, even though brought down here. For this reason the Vaishnava Philosophy terms Shri-Moorti as His 'Archavatara' (Worshippable Descent).

The conception of God without Form in contradistinction to His Essential Form is as calamitous as is the falsely imagined Form of God for one competent to see His True Form. Such insignificant processes occur before attaining to the Real Entity and do only grope in the darkness. The Shri-Vigraha of the Vaishanva Philosophy cannot but be the direct indication of the Essential Form of God. By way of an imperfect comparison it may be said to be the proxy of the essential Form of God which is beyond the cognisance of the material eye, just as there are, in art and science, crude representations of invisible matter.

How can those, that have not in their heart love of God which is the true function of the soul and is the science of the true knowledge of realities, think of the Shri-Moortis (Shri Vigrahas) as other than idols? The deliberations of the Vaishnava Philosophy are very fine. These have shown by true scientific analysis that they are all, more or less, idolaters who declare themselves as partisans either of the doctrine of no Form of God or that of His material Form. Just as those who attribute God-ship to matter and worship it like the fire worshippers among the uncivilised people or the worshippers of the planets, such as Jupiter, Saturn, etc., of Greece, are crude idolaters, in a similar manner the others, who declare everything beyond matter as formless, and become exponents of the doctrine of non-distinction, are equal or even greater idolaters.

The Henotheists or worshippers of one of the Vedic deities or the worshippers of the five deities (called Panchopasakas) worship imaginary icons, considering them as God. According to them, God has no Sat-Chit-Anand-Vigraha, and as without some form there can be no subject for contemplation, to make it easy to meditate on Him, some form has got to be imagined. They are all idolaters. So also is the conduct of some of the Yogis and others to be regarded as idolatry, who, for purifying their heart or improving the functions of the mind, imagine a God and perform practices of contemplation, etc., of some imaginary form of His. Those who consider jivas as God are the most blasphemous idolaters, because to imagine any worldly thing or form as God is idolatry.

Q: -- I have truly been astonished to hear from your Holiness these mysteries of the Vaishnava Philosophy and their scientific analysis with the most reasonable arguments. I could not even think before that there are in the Vaishnava Philosophy such excellent solution, corroboration and elucidation of the problems of Indian Philosophy.

A: -- The Vaishnava Philosophy has spoken about true wisdom. True wisdom is not subject to an attack from any rival camp like the changeable and fluctuating knowledge of the empiricists; this is the special feature of the Vaishnava Philosophy. The philosophies that have been, are being and will be built on the foundation of empiricism will be abandoned, enlarged and altered along with the increase and decrease of experience. Before the civilization five-thousand years old, the three-thousand year old civilisation is imperfect; and the seven-thousand year old one is more enlarged; and in ten thousand years it will be still further changed and enlarged. The Vaishnava Philosophy built, as it is, upon the strong unalterable foundation, of true and perfect wisdom is not fit for change and reformation through scuffling and disputes even like the foot-ball being kicked to and fro.

The Shrimad Bhagavatam which is the essence of the Vedas and Vedantas speaks of the real Truth. This scripture describes something which is beyond the regions of human civilisation and all the rules and regulations of society, and speaks about the attainment of another or spiritual body by the soul. Some empiricists of the inductive school do not recognize this change of body for the soul. There are others who try to prove such a change by various mundane reasonings. Some of them cite the example of the tendency of a newly born monkey to grasp the branch of a tree, or that of a new-born rhinoceros to fly away from the mother, considering which, they say, every one must have to admit the previous life of creatures and cannot disbelieve the transmigration of souls. As a baby-rhinoceros is born, it runs away from the mother lest the mother should lick its skin. Her tongue is so sharp that the bark of a tree licked by her is removed. The baby comes to the mother only when its hide gets hardened in the course of a few days. Seeing these, the empiricists realise that this habit of the baby rhinoceros is indicative of its previous birth.

The Vedic scriptures, however, have given a scrutinising analysis of the mutual difference of the soul, the mind and the body as the atomic sentience, pseudo-sentience and matter. The soul (atma) is the owner of the body and the mind. These two are the properties of the soul which again is the property of the Supra-soul (paramatma). The Supra-soul is the casual sentience and the soul (jivatma) is the effectual sentience. The soul has two bodies or distinguishing properties; one is the subtle one or mind and the other the crude one i.e., material body. The outer body is the aggregate of atoms of the five elements of matter; the inner or mental body is the conductor of the outer body. The soul in its conditioned or bound state is connected with foreign properties through the mind. The soul is now asleep and inattentive to the service of the Supra-soul. Seeing the owner asleep, the subordinate workers, mind and body, are busy about their mean self-interest, instead of looking after the interest of their owner. All the universe, animate and inanimate, is included within the Supra-Soul; in reality every creation is animate. Our scriptures have proved this since time immemorial. Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose has proved, even by the inductive process, before the empiric school, that there exists animation even within grass shrubs, creepers, etc.

Q: -- I shall some time see Dr. Bose. Is the conception of our difference from the Supra-Soul born of our ignorance?

A: -- We shall consider how in our conditioned state we have been enveloped by the two distinguishing properties, and how again we shall be liberated there-from. These two are non-souls. Even in this conditioned state we are animate, not insentient. The non-souls, viz. The body and the mind, are connected with the outer and mental worlds. We have yet to attain to what is beyond the body and the mind. By 'jiva' is meant 'soul', 'mind' and 'body'. According to Shri Ramanujacharya the Supra-Soul is indeed one Sentient Body. He has two Bodies; in His mental Body there is the aggregate of jivas; the outer Body is the material world. The different parts of the mental Body of the Supra-Soul are the jivatmas or atomic sentience. When the jivatma or atomic sentience feels himself as a protege of the Full Sentience or Supra-Soul and becomes steady in His eternal service, his nescience or ignorance becomes extinct. It is this contact through service between the Supra-Sentience and the atomic sentience as the Asylum and the dependant respectively that amounts to the absence of the material conception of differentiation.

In the all-world philosophical conception, the son-ship to Nanda of the Plenary God as found in the Vaishnava Philosophy is entirely a novelty. There is no such highest conception about God-ship, so nice in every respect, in any other philosophy. The other philosophies can conceive of only the Father-hood of God-head. But the excellence of the Son-hood of God-head in which has been manifest the climax of love of God, has not found place in the brain of any other philosopher.

Q: -- What other conception can be better than the Father-hood of God-head? It is only Jesus who has taught us to call God as 'Father." No other feeling can there be better in the religious world than the love that arises in the mind when God is called 'O God, Thou the Great Father.'

A: -- Yes, it is true that the Father-hood of God is a special feature of Christianity. Why in Christianity alone, the Parent-hood of God is found in some Indian religious conceptions too. But if we consider with a scrutinising scientific analysis, we can find that this Parent-hood has been attributed to God from the inductive standpoint of view, i.e., out of gratitude to God whose kindly presence we admit on the analogy of the worldly father or from some desire to get some worldly benefit from Him. There is only to be traced the attitude of gratefulness of a being or that of an indifferent spirit of his, when the different religions of India too call Him as the 'Creator', 'Sustainer of the Universe', 'Protector of the World', 'Controller of the Universe', 'Great Father', etc., from the angle of vision of the attributes of Nature on the one hand, or Brahman, etc., from an angle contrary thereto, on the other. And so such conceptions are only indirect or secondary instead of being the principal or chief ones. But in the indirect conception there is no attachment or love. This point has rather got to be understood carefully.

Though there is no connection between the attributes of Nature and the Names of God like "Narayana', 'Vasudeva', 'Hrishikesa', etc., as prevalent in the Vaishnava Philosophy, yet they are indicative of His Majesty. There is a spirit of regard and reverence behind these. But where there is no such restriction of reverence, rather where, in spite of some reference to His Supreme Majesty, there is a want of the rise of such reverential spirit, the innate loving spirit remains steady and does not become slackened. The conception of Son-ship of God has its basis on the feeling of such sweetness of the highest Love.

Vasudeva and Devaki were told by Krishna: "I reveal My Majesty before you that you may know Me to be God; or else you would have known Me as a human being." God told Arjuna too: "Just see My Majestic Form." Vasudeva told Krishna: "You are not our son, but the Over-Lord of Divine Spirit and Nature." Arjune in the Gita [5] asked pardon of Krishna for having called Him his Friend, etc. In both these examples God's Majesty has been indicated. But such was not the conception of Nanda and the ladies of Braja. They regarded even that God as their Son and Lover, as the case might be, whose Lotus-Feet are adored by all the scriptures, by deities like Brahma, Shiva, etc., men, gandarbhas, etc., and worshipped with low salutations. Nanda, Yasoda, etc., did not look upon Krishna as the Supreme Father or the Highest God. If a person becomes the overlord of the wealthiest millionaire of the world, his parents do not stand like other people before him with folded palms in awe and reverence, offering prayers and expressing gratitude, nor do his friends hesitate to be jocular as ever in his presence, nor does his wife deal with him with special veneration like the people of the outside world and stay at a respectable distance. When the cow-herd boys, His friends, reported to mother Yasoda, that He had put some earth into His Mouth, she rebuked Him. She could not do so, if she had the idea that Krishna, the Supreme Father, was the object of her reprimand. She was able to regard the Highest Entity as her own object of so close and affectionate love that due to the depth of that love she could chide or even beat Him and think of the Sole Maintainer of all maintainers as worth maintenance and nourishment at her hands. This is not intelligible to the mere theorists of gratefulness who are foreigners to affectionate love towards God. When chidden [sic] by his mother, Krishna, afraid, as it were, of her, opened His Mouth to prove His innocence; and she saw the limitless universe within It. Yet her feeling towards Him as her son was not removed, such was the depth of her affectionate love for God.

Q: -- So far it has been the effusion of emotionality only. Please convince me rationally how the conception of God's Son-ship is superior to His Father-hood.

A: -- It appears as if you were either inattentive for a while, or unable to closely follow me. I was all this time giving you scientific reasonings. In the Vaishnava Philosophy there is no place for material emotion of any kind. The ephemeral emotionality relating to matter is no devotion; it is only the property of the mind. Our conception is that of the property of the soul. I was so long adducing reasons and examples to convince you how the natural love of the soul for God reached its climax in the conception of His Son-ship as the Son of Shri Nanda. You will not be able to easily get that idea with the help of reasoning only. You should not think of material emotionality when the actual example is given. With innumerable reasonings I shall show you that the conception of the Father-hood of God emanates only from a sense of gratefulness. Father-hood has been attributed to God more or less in accordance with such conceptions as God has created us, He has been sustaining us with the various gifts of nature, and for these He is Father and we should be paying Him reverential homage on that account.

Q: -- Our Jesus Christ has called God as Father not exactly on these grounds; Jesus introduced himself as God's son for something else.

A: -- Yes, about Jesus' son-hood you say: "The son is the complete revelation of the Father whose nature he shares, and of whose powers he is the sole heir, the only begotten son, and he is in absolute dependance [sic] on the Father. 'My Father and I are one. My Father workest hitherto and I work.' The son can do nothing except what he seeth the Father do. As son, he knows the Father; as God he can speak for God. As wholly dependant on the Father, and wholly obedient to His will, the message is true."

Now the ideal of regard based on the sense of gratitude of the son to the Supreme Father is not absent because of the conception of Jesus' son-hood of God on account of his being His heir in respect of His nature, power and attributes. I think that you conceive of God as the Supreme Father in imitation of Christ, His son, and read hymns to Him with various praises indicative of gratefulness. In our Gaudiya Philosophy there is no sense of gratitude or any other cause at the root of the love or attachment towards God. Where there is some cause, the Gaudiya Philosophy does not call such love as causeless or motiveless. The attribution of Parenthood to God must have some cause behind it. Him or her whom we call father or mother and who are adorable, we cannot worship, when, averse to God, we stay in the mother's womb; even after being born we cannot do so in our infancy or childhood. Rather we being their indulged pets treat them as our servants. There is no devotional piety during those periods when instead of worshipping them, we demand and accept service from them. It is no mean outrage on such adorable parents to convert them to servants. This is the effect of our desires. Thus we see that human or other beings do not acquire fitness for serving parents from the very beginning. Though with the growth of intelligence we show some efforts to serve them, generally this has its origin in a retributive sense of gratitude or dutifulness in return for the benefit received from them. Often we show such efforts in order to inherit the property earned by them with labour and left behind them. Under the circumstances it is in the sense of gratitude or obedience to established order originating from motives, that is at the root of the conception of parent-hood; there is absolute want in it of causeless or motiveless love.

The offering of service to the master in consideration that if the money paid by him as wages is not discharged, there will be sin committed - amounts to trafficking. The service of God or attribution of Parenthood to Him or calling Him as the Sustainer, Protector, Saviour, Affectionate, Gracious, etc., arising out of the sense of awe, hope, dutifulness or gratitude, all these originate from some motive or cause and, as such, are far from His service and worship arising from the natural love of the soul towards Him.

Q: -- Do you recognize caste distinction? The caste Hindus look down upon the other classes with an eye of contempt and neglect. Do you too do so?

A: -- As the judgment of the Vaishnava Philosophy is favourable towards the service of God, the technologies giving expression to it are also different from those of the ordinary judgments of moralists or other sects. You have already heard that the Vaishnavas have no regard for the morality or ethical principles of atheists. They do not also pay much respect to the reality of the moral principles of the theists in whose judgment worship of God is only of secondary importance. They say that the service of God or love of God is the principal matter. Other matters should be helpful and subservient to that principal matter. When the two things, viz., innate tendency and circumstance of man become ready to be helpful towards the principal matter viz., God's service, then is established a good social order known as Daiva Varnasrama (Divine System of castes and stages of life). Till the natural tendency of the human soul is fully manifest, the violation of this order causes much disorder and difficulty both individually and aggregately. This caste system follows man's nature and predilection. It is scientific to ascertain one's caste in accordance with one's natural predilection. Much disturbance is created, both individually and aggregately, on account of the non-acceptance of this inviolable scientific principle of natural predilection as observed and promulgated by our ancient sages of vast experience, and the wrong adoption of the seminal principle only i.e., the principle of determining caste by birth alone. It is due to the fact that this principle of caste determination was at one time perfect and nice at all points in India, that even this day the Indians are able to stand erect with a challenging mood before the world on the glorious foundation of the past. If we examine the present social system of the Europeans, we find that whatever beauty we find in that system has as its source the determination of the caste or social order according to natural predilection. There we find that a person having a martial tendency (i.e., that for the life of a Kshatriya) joins the army; another with a tendency of a Vaisya is engaged in improving commerce; those with the tendency peculiar to Shudras serve others. No society can work well, if it does not, more or less, adopt the caste system based on natural inclination in some form or another. Even among the European natives in marital relationships and during social feasts a distinction is made between the higher and lower forms of society governed by natural predilection to which the participants belong. Thought the natural caste system is to a certain extent adopted by the European Society, it has not yet acquired scientific perfection. It can do so alongside of the progress in civilization and knowledge. In India, however, this system attained to perfection on the basis of the determination of the natural predilection. The great history of India, viz., the Mahabharata, gives thousands of instances to prove this fact. It is on account of the fact that in India such a system was based on a scientific foundation that all other nations of the world adored the Indians as their spiritual guides. Even the people of Egypt, China, etc., received instructions in all matters with their heads bent down before Indians.

We find in the ancient history of India that formerly there was only one caste and that later on society became most scientifically divined into the castes of Brahmanas, Kshatriya etc., according to disparity in the instinctive inclination for the service of Godhead. The Acharya placed one in the higher or lower grade of caste system according as the degree of liking for God's service was high or low. Those who were attached towards this service with the strongest devout ardour and as such evinced the greatest intelligence became Brahmanas. They formed the head of the huge body of the society. According to the guidance of this head were conducted the hands, the thighs and the legs, viz., the Kshatriyas, Vaisyas and Shudras respectively.

Please consider this. It is this head of ours that occupies the highest place in our body, and it is the propellant of all our senses. What need is there to say more, when all the senses, viz., the eyes, the ears, the nose, the tongue and the skin are all combined in the head. It is there that these along with the mind, intellect and egoism, are all settled. When any other limb becomes disordered, its work may be conducted in some other way; for example, when a hand is amputated, oftentimes its function is managed by means of fixing up an artificial hand in its place. But when the brain becomes defective or when the head is decapitated, none of the limbs like the hands, legs, etc., can work. In the same way, the head of the social body, which guides its intelligence indicates the faculty of the Brahmana. So prayer is offered for being directed with the mood for serving God in the Gayatri-mantra (Rig Vedic hymn) to be daily recited by a Brahmana with a worshipful spirit. The Brahmanas have no other intellectual aptitude than such an ardent mood of service to God-head. One is degraded to a Kshatriya, Vaisya or Shudra according to the degree of his fall from that ardent mood of divine service, under the guidance of some other motive. The Brahmanas represent the brain and the mouth. The function of the brain is to regulate all with the aptitude of devotion towards God, and that of the mowth [sic] is to propagate the accounts about God. It is these Brahmanas that are the real owners of everything; because they are the Goswamis or masters of the senses i.e., servitors of God. They do not misappropriate anything to their own use, but they appropriate everything to God. For this all persons of the society confide in them and choose them as their spiritual guides. They who, instead of accepting such a Brahmana, rather bear a grudge against him, fall off from the path of all good. After this brain and mouth comes the consideration of the arms to which are compared the Kshatriyas then that of the thighs which the Vaishyas represent, and then come the Shudras, who, on account of their base character and unsteady mind are likened to the feet. And those whose lives are altogether uncontrolled are known as Antyajas (untouchables) and regarded as outside the group of the four classes, as above. The Vaishnava Philosophy recognizes Daiva Varnasrama Dharma which implies classification according to the divine system by which men are divided into castes according to their natural predilection. In the present society is found its corrupted form. There arises no question of hating or disregarding any body according to the system of Varnasrama recognised by Mahaprabhu Shri Chaitanya Deva or according to the process of culturing devotion to God as shown by Him, which is ever beyond that system. In the teaching given by Him there is found instruction to show respect to every creature in its relationship with God. The judgment of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is far superior to the slight improvement of the condition of the lower castes as proposed by the modern social reformers, nay, it far excels even the impartial equality as taught in the Gita. The proposal of the worldly-minded moralists for slightly raising the status of the lower forms of society has some extraneous motive as its cause; there are various purposes hiding behind it, such as political objects, personal interests, motive for acquiring fame and such other ends. These subordinate principles have given rise to attempts for uplifting the lower castes, which are of an extremely worldly character and clearly betrary [sic] their hypocrisy. The instruction in the Gita to look on all as equal to the self from the principle that all are souls is several times more elevated than they and is free from the worldly dirt. But the teaching of Shri Chaitanya Deva is not merely prohibitive of worldliness and based on impartiality, but it is a positive one of the character of transcendentalism or of a supra-mundane type.

Shri Chaitanya Deva wants to engage all jivas in the service of God and thereby to elevate them to the highest status. He converts a crow to Garuda (the prince of Eagles). The religion promulgated by Him is not meant for Bengal alone, nor for India even, but for all countries, all villages. His is the universal religion for all creatures. So has He said: "My Name will be propagated in all towns, all villages that exist in the world." His universal religion of love attracted animals, trees, grass, shrubs, creepers and even the ferocious creatures like tigers, etc., from their outward identification to the inward one of the very essential constitution, having been spread among them too.

The religion as promulgated by Him is that of the soul; and not that of the society, physical, mental and moral, and is not restricted to the usual form of devotion of the servant to the Majestic Lord. Every jiva is entitled to culture His religion, for it is property belonging to every jiva. His religion discovers the innate nature of the jiva soul and is manifested in the unabated plenary love for God. The message of love as propagated by Him is not merely the instruction of pseudo-love founded on gratitude. According to Him, Krishna is the Absolute Personality, the Spiritual Despot. The religion of love consists in the full gratification of His Senses. The jiva should be the fuel to the fire of the gratification of the Senses of the unrestrained Autocrat Whose Will is law. It is the service of that Autocrat under the guidance of those (devotees) who are well established in the eternal service of the gratification of the Senses of Krishna (Who is the very Figure embodying the succulence in pleasure) that is the object to be accomplished by a jiva and also the means to that end. The difference between the Vaishnava Philosophy and all the other philosophies of the world lies in the fact that in the former both the object for accomplishment and the means leading to it are identical without any distinction. The means when purified and matured reveal themselves as the Object. According to the Gaudiya Philosophy the chanting of the mellifluous Name of God constitutes both the end and the means for it. This doctrine concerning the Name of God is a main feature of this Philosophy.

"I do not know, how fortunate I am to have met your Holiness and got spiritually enlightened in this manner," said the interlocutor at the end.


[1] Bh. 111.2.12
[2] Vide IV, 34
[3] St. John, 9.1-2
[4] Origin contra celscea, I. Xxxii.
[5] Vide XI.41

Published in The Harmonist (Sree Sajjanatoshani)

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